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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio now here's

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with gene and with Chris we're back on

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the power cast and it's interesting you

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know how discussions on the show fuel

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further interviews so last week for

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example our guest Micah Hanks mention

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having a conversation with Robert

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Schaeffer one of the most famous UFO

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skeptics on the planet and that

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discussion got me thinking hey that's

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half Robert Schaeffer on the show I've

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known the guy for like 40 years or

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something let's get him on the show and

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see what he has to say and see if he has

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great answers to your questions in ours

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and he said yes so a little bit later

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we'll be hearing from Robert Schaeffer

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and we'll also have questions from Micah

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Hanks who's posted them in our forums at

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forum got the power cast calm now in

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last week's show Chris decided to give

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away the store didn't you Chris

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not really but yes that's what I'm doing

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what he means is that he's giving away a

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free copy of the ebook version of

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secrets of the mysterious Valley it's a

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great book over 440 pages still a lot of

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stuff in there and if you sign up to the

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power cast newsletter you get a copy of

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the e-book now fun it's a good book I

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like it it kind of shows the reader what

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it's like to run around a very remote

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area and be the only go-to person really

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for people to report unusual events to

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and create a database for somehow

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fielding it these reports investigating

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them and then hopefully at some point

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analyzing this data obviously we have

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the garbage in garbage out scenario but

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I think over the years I was able to

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come to I think a pretty good place of

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being able to discount particular

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sighting events with mundane

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explanations but I think the San Luis

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Valley has a higher

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real reports or reports that can't be

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explained away than your average

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location out there and and I think the

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book does a good job of showing

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highlighting and focusing on some cases

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that have particularly uh of the

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head-scratching variety definitely a lot

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of head-scratching mysteries there in

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the mysterious valley so once again let

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me give you the deal you go to the para

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cast come right there above the fold is

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a little forum where you enter your

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email address

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to subscribe to the podcast newsletter

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when we get your subscription we'll send

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you out a copy of the e-book version of

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secrets of the mysterious valley in the

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next couple of days just send out a

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bunch this morning and so far the system

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isn't automated so I literally had to

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manually drag each address this is

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really you know 19th century stuff here

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drag each mail address into the email

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form and we also have to thank Apple for

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being able to do this properly because

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Apple's got a new operating system

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called Yosemite and I'm using a

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developer version and this book is

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pretty big it's like nearly 22 megabytes

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in size but because of the miracle of

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Apple's new mail drop feature I can send

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it out to anyone and if you can't

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actually accept the attachment you see a

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little link in the email and you click

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on the link and you get your file that

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was Apple so those of you who are using

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PC's that's one advantage in the new

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operating system being able to send

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these humongous attachments

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I remember when Chris was writing the

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book stalking the herd and you were

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sending me stuff like a hundred

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megabytes big something like that weight

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really like stuff yep and because of the

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way we had the email system we were able

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to receive it so there you go the power

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cast com sign up for the weekly

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newsletter it has a weekly commentary

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and information about the next episode

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of the show and a few other

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announcements you get a free copy and

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this is what we call the limited time

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offer it's gonna continue for a while

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we're not sure how long but right now

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we'll continue the offer

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secrets of the mysterious Valley and

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this is coming right out of Chris's

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pocket it's a really indicates his

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generosity to take this show to the next

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level so let's appreciate that meantime

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so many fascinating discussions are

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going on in our forum at 4:00 I'm not

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the parent cast com and there is one

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online publication that's trying to

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pretend it's their idea and that is this

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sort of debate that's going on between

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Stanton Friedman and James carry on over

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the book the Rosetta deception as you

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recall Stan said the book is baloney at

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least the concept is baloney before

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reading the book after he read the book

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he agreed it was baloney regardless

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there's been a back-and-forth discussion

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with our members with James carry on and

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occasionally comments from Stanton

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Friedman in our forums at forum dr.

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Peres cast calm and I as I said there

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was some online information about a

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debate between these two quoted a couple

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of old articles from both didn't mention

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where it started which was right here so

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there you go started right here this

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discussion about these two gentlemen and

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what they felt about it what's your take

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on this Chris

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you think there's a huge amount of

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disinformation in those early cases

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maybe even Roswell well I think that

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those crucial years 46 to 50 we see a

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tremendous amount of deception we see

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the the beginnings of the ridicule

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factor being instituted into mainstream

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media of course Robertson panel ended

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this time period and and it's been it's

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been downhill ever since

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III really do have a sense that the

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government is all about control and

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maintaining and attaining and

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maintaining control and when something

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like the UAP or UFO phenomenon comes

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along that they don't have control over

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they're going to bend over backwards to

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make it appear as if there's nothing

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going on then it should be ridiculed or

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they kind of hint around and wink wink

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that this technology actually might be

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ours and I think we see

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the underpinnings of this beginning what

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the ghost goes rocket scenario uh during

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those few hectic months in 46 and then

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of course Roswell following year so

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whatever might have happened they

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certainly took good advantage of it

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exactly and I think James did a good job

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digging up some pretty intriguing very

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interesting documents putting a certain

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individuals certain Navy ships looking

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at their involvement and other other

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deception ploys and then you know I

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think he laid out a good case that there

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is a lot of very interesting

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circumstantial evidence that would

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support the his contention that that

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this was all some sort of psyops program

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of course he's going to write a book

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about Roswell and it's coming and I have

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little doubt that his conclusion about

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Roswell will be once again either test

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aircraft or SIOP now that is also the

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curious situation here where the early

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belief system about UFOs was that they

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were spaceships and I guess what is

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partly disturbing here is the fact that

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may very well be this impression was

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created by the very same authorities who

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supposedly were trying to debunk that

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theory you know that's called baking the

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cake and eating it too yeah taking

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advantage of both sides of course they

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did that with Roswell they first said oh

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it's a flying disc oh no it's a balloon

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and I thought of that old commercial for

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something or other where they said stop

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you're both right or in this case maybe

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they're both wrong I don't know I would

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like to get a debate a real debate going

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between carrion and Friedman Macario

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Adam wants to restrict it just to the

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ghost rockets and I think that's too

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restrictive because you have to take

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those things to the logical conclusions

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where they lead yeah I agree it would

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have to be opened up more than that oh

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yes

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you can't really do it that way

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otherwise it would be a very short

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discussion would be yes it was baloney

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no it wasn't baloney here's why and

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there you go but we'll see what happens

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meantime the discussion is continuing

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over at four I'm dr. Peric ascom so

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check it out James carry on a lot of our

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members and occasional participation by

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Stanton frequent but we've got the UFO

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skeptic himself Robert Shafer coming up

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next with gene and Chris you're in the

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[Music]

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first game attack of the rock codes and

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it was a critically acclaimed success

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and now there is the coming of the

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protectors a former military

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intelligence man is contacted by a space

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woman in a dream a dream that turns out

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to be a nightmare because evil forces on

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our distant planet are planning to

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conquer the earth

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this is gripping science fiction of the

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classic kind attack of the rock codes

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and the coming of the protectors find

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out more at Rocko it's calm

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that's Rocko it's our Ock oids calm so

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here's what happened I was placing an

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order online the site went down it took

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hours before it returned but I'd already

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placed the order with another company if

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your site goes down you could lose

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business and if you have a business or

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personal site you'll want to know it's

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easy to run and it will stay online at

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iWeb your site is hosted on one of the

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most reliable networks in the world talk

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to a sales rep at iWeb comm use the

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promo code tech night owl for a special

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discount making the right decisions is a

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see economic growth slide into a

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recession or at worst depression hi Ted

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Anderson fremitus resources we all know

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when a company acts it responsibly

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divesting ourselves and a move towards

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safety is prudent when the market

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becomes volatile US Treasuries are a

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safe haven but what do you do when the

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US government overextends itself and

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spends beyond its means many investors

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are turning toward gold as a

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we'd like to hear from you

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00:14:06,450 --> 00:14:04,769
if you have a comment or question about

310
00:14:15,930 --> 00:14:06,460
the para cast

311
00:14:20,690 --> 00:14:15,940
to visit our famous para caste community

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00:14:24,270 --> 00:14:20,700
forums at forum dot the para caste calm

313
00:14:28,010 --> 00:14:24,280
so this week we have one of the most

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00:14:30,390 --> 00:14:28,020
famous UFO skeptics on the planet

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00:14:33,180 --> 00:14:30,400
Robert Schafer joining us someone I've

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00:14:34,950 --> 00:14:33,190
known for many many years and we haven't

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00:14:37,470 --> 00:14:34,960
had deep discussions but we've been in

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00:14:40,980 --> 00:14:37,480
touch Robert welcome to the para cast

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00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:40,990
Thank You Jean it's good to be here now

320
00:14:48,300 --> 00:14:45,250
according to your bio the original

321
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:48,310
skeptics movement came out between you

322
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:50,770
and James Oberg and Philip Glass right

323
00:14:57,270 --> 00:14:54,010
well as far as the UFO skeptics movement

324
00:14:59,280 --> 00:14:57,280
it was part of a larger movement of sci

325
00:15:02,130 --> 00:14:59,290
cop at the time with the amazing Randi

326
00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:02,140
and Paul Kurtz and Carl Sagan and so on

327
00:15:08,820 --> 00:15:05,710
so but yeah as far as the UFO skeptics

328
00:15:11,370 --> 00:15:08,830
the ones who actually got into studying

329
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:11,380
cases and trying to understand and

330
00:15:16,950 --> 00:15:13,810
trying to explain them it was really was

331
00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:16,960
fill class who sort of should we say he

332
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:19,510
was like the nucleus and he got a bunch

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00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:22,000
of followers myself included Jim Oberg

334
00:15:28,980 --> 00:15:25,810
Garry Posner and so on the late Michael

335
00:15:32,610 --> 00:15:28,990
Bennett and this was I first contacted

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00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:32,620
bill class I think it was 1968 or

337
00:15:37,770 --> 00:15:35,170
something like that I was a student at

338
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:37,780
Northwestern at the time of course at

339
00:15:43,170 --> 00:15:39,850
Northwestern in the Astronomy Department

340
00:15:45,540 --> 00:15:43,180
was J Allen Hynek who was the chairman

341
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:45,550
of the department and I took astronomy

342
00:15:50,820 --> 00:15:48,370
courses under him got to know him to a

343
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:50,830
fair extent and I had these discussions

344
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:54,250
with Hynek basically it was that he felt

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00:15:57,570 --> 00:15:55,930
that you know if credible persons

346
00:15:59,940 --> 00:15:57,580
reported incredible things and these

347
00:16:00,510 --> 00:15:59,950
incredible things must be really

348
00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:00,520
happening

349
00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:03,310
and we have to bend science to try to

350
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:06,880
explain them and I was arguing oh look

351
00:16:10,410 --> 00:16:08,170
at all these other things look at these

352
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:10,420
historical accounts of witchcraft and

353
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:12,610
people being burned because supposedly a

354
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:14,560
woman had changed herself into a rabbit

355
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:15,970
or something like that and we have

356
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:18,490
credible witnesses saying that they saw

357
00:16:21,780 --> 00:16:20,290
her change herself into a rabbit

358
00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:21,790
it's not just that you got the whole

359
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:24,310
thing with all the angels and miracles

360
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:27,130
and whatever else going back hundreds of

361
00:16:32,129 --> 00:16:29,290
years and this is just you know more of

362
00:16:34,259 --> 00:16:32,139
the same so basically it was I I was

363
00:16:37,050 --> 00:16:34,269
arguing that you can't really take

364
00:16:40,350 --> 00:16:37,060
something too seriously if it's just

365
00:16:42,809 --> 00:16:40,360
witness with no proof trying to claim

366
00:16:44,670 --> 00:16:42,819
something that it seems to be you know

367
00:16:47,129 --> 00:16:44,680
impossible or at least seems to be

368
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:47,139
outside a normal understanding of

369
00:16:52,079 --> 00:16:49,600
science in the real world now let me go

370
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:52,089
into that as we continue discussing the

371
00:16:57,780 --> 00:16:54,730
history of the organization that is here

372
00:17:00,139 --> 00:16:57,790
we can take eye witness testimony and

373
00:17:02,850 --> 00:17:00,149
sometimes convict somebody of murder Oh

374
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:02,860
John Smith did it I saw him three or

375
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:05,410
four people identify him obviously it's

376
00:17:10,409 --> 00:17:08,290
not the final bit of evidence but it's a

377
00:17:12,390 --> 00:17:10,419
pretty compelling case isn't it well it

378
00:17:13,980 --> 00:17:12,400
would depend in you would have to look

379
00:17:15,449 --> 00:17:13,990
at a lot of things in the case of

380
00:17:17,220 --> 00:17:15,459
eyewitness testimony in a courtroom

381
00:17:20,669 --> 00:17:17,230
there could be the possibility of bias

382
00:17:22,380 --> 00:17:20,679
or an agenda or something like that here

383
00:17:25,230 --> 00:17:22,390
I don't think it's so much that

384
00:17:27,750 --> 00:17:25,240
occasionally it may be but you have to

385
00:17:32,100 --> 00:17:27,760
remember that what sets the scientific

386
00:17:36,930 --> 00:17:32,110
method apart from other methods or other

387
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:36,940
other areas of inquiry is that it is it

388
00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:38,890
has to be you know objective in fact

389
00:17:45,149 --> 00:17:42,480
based now the very first scientific

390
00:17:47,669 --> 00:17:45,159
society that existed was the Royal

391
00:17:52,380 --> 00:17:47,679
Society of London which was founded back

392
00:17:54,180 --> 00:17:52,390
in 1660 and so we're talking more than

393
00:17:56,850 --> 00:17:54,190
three hundred and fifty years ago and

394
00:18:00,539 --> 00:17:56,860
their motto was and still is to this day

395
00:18:03,630 --> 00:18:00,549
a Latin motto nullius in verba

396
00:18:07,230 --> 00:18:03,640
which means literally means from nobody

397
00:18:09,419 --> 00:18:07,240
inwards or better yet of a more

398
00:18:11,460 --> 00:18:09,429
colloquially it means take no one's word

399
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:11,470
for it that's what sent the Royal

400
00:18:17,039 --> 00:18:14,650
Society and all subsequent scientific

401
00:18:20,039 --> 00:18:17,049
societies founded on that model apart

402
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:20,049
from other groups and other types of

403
00:18:24,930 --> 00:18:21,970
organisations and individuals who are

404
00:18:29,039 --> 00:18:24,940
trying to investigate the real world

405
00:18:31,620 --> 00:18:29,049
they basically said if all you have are

406
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:31,630
words you don't have anything so there

407
00:18:35,060 --> 00:18:33,600
had to be some sort of

408
00:18:37,940 --> 00:18:35,070
something measurable something

409
00:18:39,950 --> 00:18:37,950
repeatable and that's really what the

410
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:39,960
difference is and where people like

411
00:18:45,740 --> 00:18:42,570
Heineken jock ballet and so on are going

412
00:18:48,049 --> 00:18:45,750
wrong in my opinion is that they are

413
00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:48,059
thinking that it's just perfectly okay

414
00:18:53,390 --> 00:18:50,640
to base scientific theories on what

415
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:53,400
witnesses think they saw whereas today

416
00:18:58,279 --> 00:18:56,000
we have a lot of information especially

417
00:19:00,460 --> 00:18:58,289
researchers in psychology people like

418
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:00,470
Elizabeth Loftus and many others doing

419
00:19:07,669 --> 00:19:04,770
research on human memory and its

420
00:19:10,370 --> 00:19:07,679
accuracy and they're finding that not

421
00:19:12,529 --> 00:19:10,380
only can it be wildly inaccurate but

422
00:19:16,370 --> 00:19:12,539
often it's malleable in the sense that

423
00:19:18,730 --> 00:19:16,380
based on discussions or based on reading

424
00:19:21,649 --> 00:19:18,740
or information that a person acquires

425
00:19:26,180 --> 00:19:21,659
afterward after the incident that may

426
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:26,190
actually change their memory of the

427
00:19:31,399 --> 00:19:29,850
incident according to you know like if

428
00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:31,409
you say it's up if you show somebody a

429
00:19:37,370 --> 00:19:33,840
video and you know let's say there's a

430
00:19:40,310 --> 00:19:37,380
staged car crash on a video and you

431
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:40,320
asked did you see a stop sign a certain

432
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:42,450
number of percentage certain percentage

433
00:19:47,390 --> 00:19:45,090
will say yes if you say did you see the

434
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:47,400
stop sign a greater number of people

435
00:19:51,799 --> 00:19:49,890
will say yes even if there was no stop

436
00:19:54,169 --> 00:19:51,809
sign in the video they don't want to

437
00:19:56,149 --> 00:19:54,179
admit they didn't see something that was

438
00:19:59,360 --> 00:19:56,159
possibly there but wouldn't that also

439
00:20:01,580 --> 00:19:59,370
argue in favor of the fact that if you

440
00:20:03,919 --> 00:20:01,590
are going to depend at all on eyewitness

441
00:20:06,980 --> 00:20:03,929
testimony get it as early as possible

442
00:20:08,899 --> 00:20:06,990
before memories are polluted absolutely

443
00:20:11,299 --> 00:20:08,909
that's I think a very important point

444
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:11,309
and you have to apply that especially to

445
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:14,730
these very big and complicated cases

446
00:20:18,590 --> 00:20:17,280
like you know people will say for

447
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:18,600
example in the case of Betty and Barney

448
00:20:22,820 --> 00:20:20,640
Hill who allegedly saw this light in the

449
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:22,830
sky before they believed that they were

450
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:25,650
abducted and you'll hear people say well

451
00:20:31,039 --> 00:20:27,890
she couldn't have seen Jupiter in that

452
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:31,049
early part of the sighting because she

453
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:32,880
said she saw him go across the face of

454
00:20:36,799 --> 00:20:35,039
the Moon no she didn't say that at the

455
00:20:39,230 --> 00:20:36,809
time she said that later several years

456
00:20:41,330 --> 00:20:39,240
later that was added to the story so

457
00:20:43,070 --> 00:20:41,340
these are the kinds of things especially

458
00:20:45,289 --> 00:20:43,080
when you have a big complicated case

459
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:45,299
like some of these big classics like

460
00:20:49,450 --> 00:20:46,970
Betty and Barney Hill you have to

461
00:20:51,220 --> 00:20:49,460
not just what was said but when was it

462
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:51,230
said and how did this story change over

463
00:20:57,340 --> 00:20:54,290
time okay but whenever they saw

464
00:21:00,160 --> 00:20:57,350
originally what did they remember under

465
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:00,170
hypnosis was that made up because the

466
00:21:04,540 --> 00:21:02,570
person who hypnotized them is not

467
00:21:05,050 --> 00:21:04,550
someone you would accuse of leading them

468
00:21:07,270 --> 00:21:05,060
on

469
00:21:11,590 --> 00:21:07,280
no he certainly did not have any agenda

470
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:11,600
that's not in question dr. Simon he was

471
00:21:18,250 --> 00:21:14,570
a very competent psychiatrist but the

472
00:21:20,590 --> 00:21:18,260
entire idea of hypnosis as a memory

473
00:21:24,730 --> 00:21:20,600
recovery tool is now very much

474
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:24,740
discredited among psychologists you know

475
00:21:29,470 --> 00:21:27,170
the organizations like you know American

476
00:21:32,050 --> 00:21:29,480
Psychiatric Association and and so on

477
00:21:35,140 --> 00:21:32,060
are basically on record is saying that

478
00:21:37,210 --> 00:21:35,150
you know is hypnosis is not a credible

479
00:21:40,330 --> 00:21:37,220
way to recover memories that

480
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:40,340
unfortunately what turns up much of the

481
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:45,890
time is fantasy or or fabrication not

482
00:21:52,630 --> 00:21:48,170
necessarily in a negative sense they're

483
00:21:56,530 --> 00:21:52,640
just almost like imagination so there'll

484
00:21:59,650 --> 00:21:56,540
be a mixture of of reality and fantasy

485
00:22:03,490 --> 00:21:59,660
in there can be you know in a hypnosis

486
00:22:05,950 --> 00:22:03,500
story so for that reason nobody uses it

487
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:05,960
in that serious sense anymore except for

488
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:08,930
a few UFO abduction is who use it all

489
00:22:13,330 --> 00:22:11,450
the time how it's not admissible in

490
00:22:16,090 --> 00:22:13,340
court because it is recognized as not

491
00:22:19,300 --> 00:22:16,100
being credible and in fact worse than

492
00:22:22,930 --> 00:22:19,310
that if a witness has had hypnosis to

493
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:22,940
attempt to recall more information or

494
00:22:27,460 --> 00:22:25,610
whatever that witness is subsequently

495
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:27,470
the testimony can be challenged and

496
00:22:32,050 --> 00:22:29,330
thrown out we're talking about the value

497
00:22:33,610 --> 00:22:32,060
of hypnosis in research maybe even an

498
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:33,620
abduction research more to come with

499
00:22:38,530 --> 00:22:36,530
Robert Schaefer UFO skeptic and more

500
00:22:40,210 --> 00:22:38,540
with Jeanne and Chris you're in the para

501
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:40,220
cast

502
00:22:53,190 --> 00:22:50,340
independently leading the way for the

503
00:23:00,330 --> 00:22:53,200
nation compelling talk for every

504
00:23:03,330 --> 00:23:00,340
political persuasion we are G C and is

505
00:23:05,609 --> 00:23:03,340
there a secret UFO agenda to strange

506
00:23:07,919 --> 00:23:05,619
creatures from the darkest corners of

507
00:23:10,739 --> 00:23:07,929
the mind roam the earth is there

508
00:23:14,369 --> 00:23:10,749
evidence for mind control time travel or

509
00:23:15,989 --> 00:23:14,379
devious government conspiracies find out

510
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:15,999
the inside scoop on the latest

511
00:23:21,210 --> 00:23:18,610
conspiracies paranormal activity and

512
00:23:24,180 --> 00:23:21,220
important phenomena when you subscribe

513
00:23:26,999 --> 00:23:24,190
to Tim Beckley's conspiracy girl it's

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00:23:29,669 --> 00:23:27,009
jam-packed with stories special book and

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00:23:30,930 --> 00:23:29,679
DVD promotions and the best news it's

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00:23:40,259 --> 00:23:37,740
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00:23:44,549 --> 00:23:40,269
simply sent an email with your name and

520
00:23:50,039 --> 00:23:44,559
address to Mister UFO at what TV net

521
00:23:54,130 --> 00:23:50,049
that's mr. UFO at web TV net find out

522
00:23:58,680 --> 00:23:54,140
what they don't want you to know

523
00:24:01,780 --> 00:23:58,690
[Music]

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550
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551
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552
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553
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554
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555
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556
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557
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558
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559
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560
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561
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574
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575
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576
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577
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578
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579
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580
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581
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583
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584
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585
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586
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587
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589
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590
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591
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599
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600
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601
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comm hi this is Don Ecker and you are

602
00:27:08,740 --> 00:27:06,500
tuned in to the para cast let me tell

603
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:08,750
you what you're gonna hear stuff here

604
00:27:15,460 --> 00:27:11,840
that you probably won't hear anywhere

605
00:27:16,750 --> 00:27:15,470
else hear that George Noory in our

606
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:16,760
previous segment we were talking about

607
00:27:21,790 --> 00:27:19,730
the value of hypnosis and certainly even

608
00:27:24,580 --> 00:27:21,800
people in the UFO field who accept the

609
00:27:26,590 --> 00:27:24,590
reality of UFOs do dismiss the value of

610
00:27:28,690 --> 00:27:26,600
hypnotic regression one example that of

611
00:27:30,730 --> 00:27:28,700
course is Kevin Randle we have Robert

612
00:27:33,330 --> 00:27:30,740
che for joining us so let's continue

613
00:27:36,130 --> 00:27:33,340
with this discussion all right so

614
00:27:37,870 --> 00:27:36,140
experiences are unearthed but in the

615
00:27:40,180 --> 00:27:37,880
case of Barney and Betty Hill what do

616
00:27:42,130 --> 00:27:40,190
you think happened to them what I think

617
00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:42,140
happened was that they were driving

618
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:44,510
along here now and a point that people

619
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:47,090
often miss is they had been driving for

620
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:50,090
I don't know how many hours 16 hours or

621
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:53,810
something like that so they were trying

622
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:56,240
to make it home before I guess there was

623
00:28:00,340 --> 00:27:58,010
some storm expected or hurricane or

624
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:00,350
something like that and also it seems

625
00:28:03,310 --> 00:28:01,850
that they basically didn't have money

626
00:28:05,890 --> 00:28:03,320
for a hotel and so they were going to

627
00:28:09,130 --> 00:28:05,900
just push on and drive and get home from

628
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:09,140
Canada rather than staying one more

629
00:28:13,420 --> 00:28:10,910
night and then coming back in a more

630
00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:13,430
relaxed they basically they pulled an

631
00:28:18,130 --> 00:28:15,440
all-nighter in trying to drive back and

632
00:28:22,820 --> 00:28:18,140
daddy apparently saw an object in the

633
00:28:25,460 --> 00:28:22,830
sky that to her was a UFO

634
00:28:27,230 --> 00:28:25,470
and it seemed to be following them but

635
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:27,240
of course you know as you drive along

636
00:28:30,649 --> 00:28:28,890
and you look at the moon the moon

637
00:28:33,139 --> 00:28:30,659
appears to be following you as you drive

638
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:33,149
along very common illusion the same

639
00:28:39,740 --> 00:28:35,850
thing with any celestial object and so

640
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:39,750
she saw this and got excited and because

641
00:28:44,090 --> 00:28:41,490
of her excited state gradually got

642
00:28:48,649 --> 00:28:44,100
Barney excited and two of them got so

643
00:28:50,029 --> 00:28:48,659
excited that they drove off and it's not

644
00:28:52,730 --> 00:28:50,039
clear they may have stopped somewhere

645
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:52,740
for a little while but in any case when

646
00:28:56,389 --> 00:28:54,450
they finally got home and went to bed

647
00:28:59,600 --> 00:28:56,399
that they didn't think anything was

648
00:29:01,940 --> 00:28:59,610
wrong but they called up Betty called up

649
00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:01,950
her sister the next day her sister

650
00:29:08,090 --> 00:29:04,320
happens to be the mother of kathleen

651
00:29:11,269 --> 00:29:08,100
Mardon and who was herself Betty's

652
00:29:12,350 --> 00:29:11,279
sister was a big UFO buff and said well

653
00:29:14,419 --> 00:29:12,360
you won't believe what happened to us

654
00:29:17,149 --> 00:29:14,429
and told her the story and gradually the

655
00:29:19,159 --> 00:29:17,159
story got out there and came bigger and

656
00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:19,169
bigger more people came if you read the

657
00:29:25,250 --> 00:29:21,120
interrupted journey you'll see how many

658
00:29:27,529 --> 00:29:25,260
people actually came to listen to I mean

659
00:29:30,169 --> 00:29:27,539
UFO investigators to talk to Betty and

660
00:29:31,879 --> 00:29:30,179
Barney and to well your their story and

661
00:29:34,100 --> 00:29:31,889
of course some of them suggested well it

662
00:29:36,409 --> 00:29:34,110
may have been missing time although if

663
00:29:38,750 --> 00:29:36,419
you realize how skinny those little

664
00:29:41,060 --> 00:29:38,760
roads are in the fact that Barney and

665
00:29:43,370 --> 00:29:41,070
talks about you know having to do he was

666
00:29:45,799 --> 00:29:43,380
watching his driving so slowly he had to

667
00:29:49,370 --> 00:29:45,809
put the car in first gear so the engine

668
00:29:52,070 --> 00:29:49,380
would install so it's not exactly um you

669
00:29:54,049 --> 00:29:52,080
know a race car of course there so

670
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:54,059
you're saying there was no missing time

671
00:29:58,850 --> 00:29:56,730
there probably wasn't but again we don't

672
00:30:01,190 --> 00:29:58,860
know exactly what the timescale is

673
00:30:03,710 --> 00:30:01,200
because you know Betty has made

674
00:30:05,899 --> 00:30:03,720
inconsistent statements about you know

675
00:30:08,299 --> 00:30:05,909
what time they arrived here what Amy

676
00:30:10,820 --> 00:30:08,309
arrived there fact even this notion that

677
00:30:13,310 --> 00:30:10,830
they began the thing at 10 o'clock up

678
00:30:16,370 --> 00:30:13,320
and was a gold Brook even that

679
00:30:19,909 --> 00:30:16,380
apparently came from hypnosis thing that

680
00:30:22,519 --> 00:30:19,919
when Barney said it was under hypnosis

681
00:30:24,230 --> 00:30:22,529
he told dr. Simon he remembered seeing

682
00:30:26,539 --> 00:30:24,240
the clock and the clock said 5 minutes

683
00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:26,549
after 10 o'clock but again any detail

684
00:30:30,769 --> 00:30:28,320
like that under hypnosis you really

685
00:30:32,539 --> 00:30:30,779
can't rely on so we really don't over

686
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:32,549
sure what time they started out in New

687
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:35,010
Hampshire and we don't really know what

688
00:30:38,490 --> 00:30:36,610
they did along the way they

689
00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:38,500
say that they stopped several times we

690
00:30:42,930 --> 00:30:40,960
don't know for how long so it's really

691
00:30:44,850 --> 00:30:42,940
it's very difficult to say but if even

692
00:30:47,190 --> 00:30:44,860
if there is so-called missing time

693
00:30:48,690 --> 00:30:47,200
there's nothing necessarily Supernatural

694
00:30:51,090 --> 00:30:48,700
about it it could be just you know

695
00:30:54,210 --> 00:30:51,100
basically sitting there and wondering

696
00:30:55,770 --> 00:30:54,220
about it and losing track of time you

697
00:30:58,460 --> 00:30:55,780
know again I've always had my doubts

698
00:31:01,470 --> 00:30:58,470
about the abduction phenomenon and I'm

699
00:31:02,460 --> 00:31:01,480
kind of under I'm not really happy that

700
00:31:06,060 --> 00:31:02,470
we're starting now

701
00:31:09,020 --> 00:31:06,070
with this particular so-called mystery

702
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:09,030
one of the things though that that I do

703
00:31:13,650 --> 00:31:12,250
agree with you Robert and that is people

704
00:31:16,110 --> 00:31:13,660
who think that they've had an

705
00:31:20,010 --> 00:31:16,120
extraordinary experience are very

706
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:20,020
susceptible to being led by someone who

707
00:31:24,510 --> 00:31:22,720
is improperly schooled in the proper way

708
00:31:27,870 --> 00:31:24,520
to ask questions and to gather

709
00:31:30,090 --> 00:31:27,880
information from a witness I've seen

710
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:30,100
this time and time again with amateur

711
00:31:34,650 --> 00:31:32,410
investigators going out and leading the

712
00:31:37,020 --> 00:31:34,660
witness and supplying answers for

713
00:31:39,330 --> 00:31:37,030
instance it should never be a

714
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:39,340
multiple-choice scenario when you're

715
00:31:44,850 --> 00:31:42,130
interviewing somebody you try to keep

716
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:44,860
your questions as short concise and to

717
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:47,679
the point as possible without giving the

718
00:31:52,310 --> 00:31:50,290
witness any sort of information that

719
00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:52,320
they can latch on to as a way to

720
00:31:59,549 --> 00:31:55,510
unconsciously please the the interviewer

721
00:32:03,570 --> 00:31:59,559
for instance and I and I see this this

722
00:32:05,909 --> 00:32:03,580
lack of field experience time and time

723
00:32:07,980 --> 00:32:05,919
again when I'm when I've been out with

724
00:32:10,350 --> 00:32:07,990
other investigators there are some

725
00:32:12,299 --> 00:32:10,360
investigators way I do admire and and do

726
00:32:14,250 --> 00:32:12,309
use proper interview techniques which

727
00:32:17,190 --> 00:32:14,260
are which are pretty standard throughout

728
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:17,200
journalism prisons but when it comes to

729
00:32:23,330 --> 00:32:21,370
to hypnotic regression and the abduction

730
00:32:25,590 --> 00:32:23,340
phenomenon the way that it's been

731
00:32:27,659 --> 00:32:25,600
promoted and the way it's been

732
00:32:30,390 --> 00:32:27,669
sensationalized I couldn't agree more

733
00:32:33,630 --> 00:32:30,400
with you and I really do feel that this

734
00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:33,640
is a a real phenomenon on some level but

735
00:32:38,340 --> 00:32:35,710
there's a psychological component that

736
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:38,350
is totally being missed by you know your

737
00:32:45,210 --> 00:32:41,650
main big time in abduction investigators

738
00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:45,220
and researchers and and I do I'm not

739
00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:47,200
it's not surprising to me that we're

740
00:32:53,230 --> 00:32:50,480
seeing much less emphasis

741
00:32:55,410 --> 00:32:53,240
on this particular mystery as the years

742
00:32:57,550 --> 00:32:55,420
go by and we're hearing less and less

743
00:33:01,090 --> 00:32:57,560
about people claiming to have these

744
00:33:03,010 --> 00:33:01,100
sorts of encounters right and I didn't

745
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:03,020
mean to get bogged down into something

746
00:33:07,270 --> 00:33:04,610
like Betty and Barney this early either

747
00:33:09,670 --> 00:33:07,280
it just came up as a as amidst all of

748
00:33:12,970 --> 00:33:09,680
the kind of case we were talking about

749
00:33:14,890 --> 00:33:12,980
yes he followed the Christkind it was

750
00:33:18,910 --> 00:33:14,900
what he touching there on the notion

751
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:18,920
that the abductor G if you will seems to

752
00:33:24,970 --> 00:33:22,250
have um kind of passed its peak and it's

753
00:33:27,250 --> 00:33:24,980
now headed down a lot of you know 20

754
00:33:28,690 --> 00:33:27,260
years ago a lot of people were convinced

755
00:33:30,430 --> 00:33:28,700
that there are boy this is really gonna

756
00:33:35,380 --> 00:33:30,440
solve the think if you look at the

757
00:33:37,780 --> 00:33:35,390
history of UFO claims you start out in

758
00:33:39,820 --> 00:33:37,790
the 1940s and 50s and it's basically

759
00:33:42,310 --> 00:33:39,830
it's all based on sightings what people

760
00:33:44,110 --> 00:33:42,320
think they see and they say oh it you

761
00:33:47,410 --> 00:33:44,120
know it's making right angle turns at

762
00:33:48,820 --> 00:33:47,420
high speeds and whatever and and again

763
00:33:51,850 --> 00:33:48,830
this is this is how it was perceived

764
00:33:53,290 --> 00:33:51,860
then after a while by the time you get

765
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:53,300
to the late sixties and you have that

766
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:55,370
big frenzy of sightings in the late

767
00:33:59,620 --> 00:33:57,650
sixties around the time of the Condon

768
00:34:01,660 --> 00:33:59,630
report which is why they had to have the

769
00:34:05,350 --> 00:34:01,670
Condon report and then what the big

770
00:34:07,330 --> 00:34:05,360
sightings boom of 73 after that you

771
00:34:11,830 --> 00:34:07,340
don't have anything like that but by

772
00:34:15,310 --> 00:34:11,840
this time the UFO abduction mania if you

773
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:15,320
will or or interest is is growing and

774
00:34:19,750 --> 00:34:18,170
people thought well these sightings

775
00:34:21,580 --> 00:34:19,760
didn't get us anywhere investigating

776
00:34:24,220 --> 00:34:21,590
sightings but we're going to investigate

777
00:34:26,170 --> 00:34:24,230
these abduction cases and then we're

778
00:34:28,720 --> 00:34:26,180
gonna have proof of aliens and proof of

779
00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:28,730
UFOs and then that after a while

780
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:31,280
basically faded into the background and

781
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:34,250
then you get crashes were then the big

782
00:34:39,850 --> 00:34:36,890
thing starting up in the eighties and we

783
00:34:42,220 --> 00:34:39,860
talked about crashes though it's mostly

784
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:42,230
about Roswell which happened in 1947

785
00:34:49,240 --> 00:34:45,530
would ever happen there yes cushon of

786
00:34:51,190 --> 00:34:49,250
crashes is mostly that today's UFOs we

787
00:34:55,300 --> 00:34:51,200
still get cases a lot of cases were

788
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:55,310
reported to MUFON in 2012 and 2013 I

789
00:35:00,930 --> 00:34:57,890
mean most lights in the sky some were

790
00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:00,940
much more detailed some had some pretty

791
00:35:04,570 --> 00:35:04,250
respectable witnesses involved so you

792
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:04,580
know I

793
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:06,970
don't necessarily go with you about the

794
00:35:11,020 --> 00:35:08,570
trends here

795
00:35:13,870 --> 00:35:11,030
the reason Roswell came up is because in

796
00:35:15,700 --> 00:35:13,880
the late 70s it was dug up by William

797
00:35:17,590 --> 00:35:15,710
Moore and Stanton Friedman for the book

798
00:35:19,540 --> 00:35:17,600
that was done with Charles Berlitz now

799
00:35:20,650 --> 00:35:19,550
as far as Charles Berlitz is concerned I

800
00:35:23,530 --> 00:35:20,660
knew him did you

801
00:35:28,030 --> 00:35:23,540
I had met him once or twice I remember

802
00:35:30,700 --> 00:35:28,040
one of these 14 conventions I think oh

803
00:35:32,290 --> 00:35:30,710
no is a national UFO conference on 1980

804
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:32,300
in New York City and he was there to

805
00:35:37,690 --> 00:35:34,850
talk about something and I remember him

806
00:35:40,090 --> 00:35:37,700
sitting in the bar and enjoying himself

807
00:35:42,670 --> 00:35:40,100
as I was doing indeed and John keel was

808
00:35:44,650 --> 00:35:42,680
there but I didn't really get to meet

809
00:35:47,710 --> 00:35:44,660
the guy or say much to him so I can't

810
00:35:50,740 --> 00:35:47,720
say is I really knew him but the reason

811
00:35:52,420 --> 00:35:50,750
I'm just talking about the you know the

812
00:35:55,270 --> 00:35:52,430
abductions and the crashes and things

813
00:35:57,370 --> 00:35:55,280
it's kind of like people are looking for

814
00:35:59,530 --> 00:35:57,380
some way to prove that UFOs are real and

815
00:36:01,090 --> 00:35:59,540
when something like this comes along and

816
00:36:04,030 --> 00:36:01,100
it appears to be very promising for a

817
00:36:05,890 --> 00:36:04,040
while then it gradually people get

818
00:36:07,450 --> 00:36:05,900
disillusioned when they realize that it

819
00:36:10,210 --> 00:36:07,460
doesn't seem to be leading anywhere and

820
00:36:12,370 --> 00:36:10,220
then they go off and and try to find

821
00:36:15,070 --> 00:36:12,380
some other way to try to uh to prove

822
00:36:18,010 --> 00:36:15,080
these things and of course crashes is

823
00:36:21,490 --> 00:36:18,020
far more than just Roswell people make a

824
00:36:23,770 --> 00:36:21,500
big thing about X berg and so many

825
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:23,780
others and I think see SETI has a list

826
00:36:30,970 --> 00:36:26,930
of I don't know 200 and something UFO

827
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:30,980
crashes of which but tour on Mars and

828
00:36:32,740 --> 00:36:32,450
one is on the moon or something like

829
00:36:35,470 --> 00:36:32,750
that

830
00:36:38,980 --> 00:36:35,480
so well you know is C SETI I think they

831
00:36:41,230 --> 00:36:38,990
are on the moon let's get on with more

832
00:36:47,110 --> 00:36:41,240
discussion with Robert Shafer joining

833
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[Music]

932
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:06,000
this is the wrong flower Glasser of the

933
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:08,250
f1 cycle feeding other looks when you're

934
00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:10,650
listening to the podcast

935
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:19,609
[Music]

936
00:41:24,170 --> 00:41:22,410
now let me just ask you here Robert

937
00:41:26,990 --> 00:41:24,180
because we've mentioned it in previous

938
00:41:29,630 --> 00:41:27,000
episodes on the para cast and that is in

939
00:41:31,940 --> 00:41:29,640
the case of Roswell yes some of the

940
00:41:33,170 --> 00:41:31,950
theories have it as maybe it wasn't a

941
00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:33,180
balloon maybe it was just a test

942
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:35,730
aircraft that crashed wouldn't that make

943
00:41:40,309 --> 00:41:38,880
sense I don't think it would because the

944
00:41:44,089 --> 00:41:40,319
consistency of the people who actually

945
00:41:47,390 --> 00:41:44,099
saw and handled this so-called debris

946
00:41:50,630 --> 00:41:47,400
was largely describing it as in terms of

947
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:50,640
foil it's like a mylar type substance

948
00:41:54,079 --> 00:41:52,410
the kind of thing that you find in a

949
00:41:57,049 --> 00:41:54,089
balloon not in the kind of thing that

950
00:41:59,029 --> 00:41:57,059
you would find in a test aircraft and

951
00:42:01,789 --> 00:41:59,039
also if there were a test aircraft that

952
00:42:04,190 --> 00:42:01,799
crashed after what almost 70 years

953
00:42:06,740 --> 00:42:04,200
there'd be no reason to not to not

954
00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:06,750
disclose it so you know I think we would

955
00:42:09,980 --> 00:42:08,250
have heard about that there that people

956
00:42:12,769 --> 00:42:09,990
were fairly seriously looking into this

957
00:42:17,299 --> 00:42:12,779
for a long time the best source I think

958
00:42:20,299 --> 00:42:17,309
of information on Roswell is the book by

959
00:42:23,599 --> 00:42:20,309
Carl flock that was published I think in

960
00:42:26,450 --> 00:42:23,609
around the year 2000 with what is it

961
00:42:27,890 --> 00:42:26,460
called roswell inconvenient facts and

962
00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:27,900
the will to believe something like that

963
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:30,480
like carl flock he goes into all these

964
00:42:37,009 --> 00:42:33,119
witnesses and of course the big time

965
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:37,019
witnesses Kaufman and Glenn Dennis and

966
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:39,930
so on he goes into basically why their

967
00:42:44,210 --> 00:42:43,170
stories are not credible or you want to

968
00:42:45,859 --> 00:42:44,220
put it another way

969
00:42:48,079 --> 00:42:45,869
proof that they were not telling the

970
00:42:50,839 --> 00:42:48,089
truth that they were making up stuff and

971
00:42:52,430 --> 00:42:50,849
other people basically was second hand

972
00:42:54,499 --> 00:42:52,440
or third hand as well I had heard this

973
00:42:57,170 --> 00:42:54,509
I'd heard that but that doesn't really

974
00:42:59,660 --> 00:42:57,180
go very far our proving anything so I

975
00:43:02,779 --> 00:42:59,670
think that the project mogul explanation

976
00:43:05,059 --> 00:43:02,789
is the best the best overall fit for

977
00:43:07,339 --> 00:43:05,069
what happened there let me just tell you

978
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:07,349
what the book is by the way Carl flock

979
00:43:11,710 --> 00:43:09,210
and Jerry Pournelle a very well known

980
00:43:13,999 --> 00:43:11,720
science fiction writer rode roswell

981
00:43:17,539 --> 00:43:14,009
inconvenient facts and the will to

982
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:17,549
believe in 2001 okay now let me just

983
00:43:22,009 --> 00:43:19,890
tell you something here I understand

984
00:43:26,210 --> 00:43:22,019
about the possibility of the so called

985
00:43:27,070 --> 00:43:26,220
memory metal being just aluminum foil or

986
00:43:29,620 --> 00:43:27,080
something from a

987
00:43:32,770 --> 00:43:29,630
I've interviewed people here in the show

988
00:43:35,170 --> 00:43:32,780
of dr. Jesse Marcel jr. for example I

989
00:43:36,700 --> 00:43:35,180
did talk to somebody the other day and

990
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:36,710
of course it became a secondhand

991
00:43:42,010 --> 00:43:38,810
discussion a resident of Roswell says

992
00:43:44,140 --> 00:43:42,020
that back in the late 50s he talked to

993
00:43:47,410 --> 00:43:44,150
one of the firemen in Roswell who

994
00:43:49,630 --> 00:43:47,420
claimed that he saw bodies in connection

995
00:43:52,690 --> 00:43:49,640
with the crashed Roswell whatever it was

996
00:43:55,870 --> 00:43:52,700
all these stories about seeing bodies

997
00:43:58,390 --> 00:43:55,880
you think they're all made up I think so

998
00:44:00,550 --> 00:43:58,400
no one's about bodies I don't think

999
00:44:03,550 --> 00:44:00,560
anybody saw a body and Marcel didn't

1000
00:44:06,820 --> 00:44:03,560
claim to and neither Marcel claimed to

1001
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:06,830
see a body Mac Brazel didn't claim to

1002
00:44:12,940 --> 00:44:09,530
see any bodies they just saw some debris

1003
00:44:14,860 --> 00:44:12,950
some mylar in foil type stuff with

1004
00:44:17,530 --> 00:44:14,870
sticks tinfoil and sticks I don't know

1005
00:44:20,260 --> 00:44:17,540
how you build an interstellar craft it's

1006
00:44:23,770 --> 00:44:20,270
almost like you're building a kite not a

1007
00:44:26,020 --> 00:44:23,780
spacecraft yes I think that again maybe

1008
00:44:28,150 --> 00:44:26,030
it's possible somebody did persuade

1009
00:44:30,450 --> 00:44:28,160
himself or hallucinate or have a vivid

1010
00:44:33,550 --> 00:44:30,460
dream or something and this turned into

1011
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:33,560
something about bodies but I think for

1012
00:44:37,150 --> 00:44:34,850
the most part two people as their eyes

1013
00:44:38,290 --> 00:44:37,160
all the bodies are you know it's kind of

1014
00:44:39,610 --> 00:44:38,300
like a me two things

1015
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:39,620
you know it's other really important

1016
00:44:44,380 --> 00:44:41,930
happened here so you know I'm gonna be

1017
00:44:46,690 --> 00:44:44,390
part of it what bothers me mostly about

1018
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:46,700
Roswell is that all these memories come

1019
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:50,450
forth 30 years after the fact yeah I

1020
00:44:55,330 --> 00:44:53,330
think about forget about UFOs I think

1021
00:44:56,770 --> 00:44:55,340
about all the movies and all the

1022
00:44:58,660 --> 00:44:56,780
cultural icons that might have

1023
00:45:00,910 --> 00:44:58,670
influenced it but what about the

1024
00:45:03,430 --> 00:45:00,920
so-called deathbed revelations the

1025
00:45:06,820 --> 00:45:03,440
confessions people who are about to die

1026
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:06,830
and say yes I saw bodies yes this

1027
00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:08,690
happened yes that happened why would

1028
00:45:14,290 --> 00:45:10,730
they do that the only one of those that

1029
00:45:18,910 --> 00:45:14,300
I'm aware of involved a Walter Haut okay

1030
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:18,920
the affidavit was typed up who was it

1031
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:20,720
that typed it up and gave it to him I

1032
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:23,570
forget if that was was that Donald's man

1033
00:45:29,110 --> 00:45:26,930
or who was that that presented it to him

1034
00:45:31,420 --> 00:45:29,120
I'm not sure but that sounds sounds like

1035
00:45:33,730 --> 00:45:31,430
a good fit yeah that I think she made it

1036
00:45:36,970 --> 00:45:33,740
somehow involved here yes yeah but in

1037
00:45:39,820 --> 00:45:36,980
any case whoever it was the criticism is

1038
00:45:41,019 --> 00:45:39,830
that this was a man who was already well

1039
00:45:43,870 --> 00:45:41,029
into his 80s I believe

1040
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:43,880
and he was in in poor health and and

1041
00:45:48,069 --> 00:45:45,890
apparently showing you least some signs

1042
00:45:50,079 --> 00:45:48,079
of dementia and this thing basically he

1043
00:45:52,539 --> 00:45:50,089
didn't type it or he didn't write it it

1044
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:52,549
was typed up by somebody else based on

1045
00:45:56,620 --> 00:45:54,319
what they claimed he said or thought he

1046
00:45:59,079 --> 00:45:56,630
said gave it to him and said sign this

1047
00:46:00,939 --> 00:45:59,089
and he did you think he signed it

1048
00:46:03,909 --> 00:46:00,949
without being fully aware of what he was

1049
00:46:05,679 --> 00:46:03,919
signing it could be it's hard to know

1050
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:05,689
for sure of course I wasn't there and I

1051
00:46:10,899 --> 00:46:07,729
don't know what his mental state was but

1052
00:46:14,109 --> 00:46:10,909
I know that critics of that have made

1053
00:46:15,909 --> 00:46:14,119
this charge it does seem to me odd that

1054
00:46:18,459 --> 00:46:15,919
you know especially if walter haut spent

1055
00:46:20,589 --> 00:46:18,469
all this time promoting the roswell

1056
00:46:22,959 --> 00:46:20,599
story and and working with the roswell

1057
00:46:24,729 --> 00:46:22,969
museum and so on and so on and being

1058
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:24,739
basically you know one of the go-to guys

1059
00:46:30,399 --> 00:46:28,249
or anyone who wants be worth write a

1060
00:46:33,489 --> 00:46:30,409
book or write an article about roswell

1061
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:33,499
and all of a sudden after that the years

1062
00:46:37,089 --> 00:46:36,650
are whatever more he says oh yeah i saw

1063
00:46:38,829 --> 00:46:37,099
bodies

1064
00:46:40,419 --> 00:46:38,839
that's it should have come out much

1065
00:46:42,489 --> 00:46:40,429
sooner if it was going to be credible

1066
00:46:46,479 --> 00:46:42,499
I would think let's move to a more

1067
00:46:50,799 --> 00:46:46,489
recent landing situation Rendlesham

1068
00:46:53,380 --> 00:46:50,809
forest in the UK yes okay I obviously

1069
00:46:55,630 --> 00:46:53,390
sense from your laughter that you have a

1070
00:46:58,569 --> 00:46:55,640
lot to say about that so we've had

1071
00:47:00,609 --> 00:46:58,579
several discussions here on the power

1072
00:47:03,279 --> 00:47:00,619
casts we've had John Burroughs one of

1073
00:47:06,689 --> 00:47:03,289
the people who was there we like Pope we

1074
00:47:08,859 --> 00:47:06,699
had Peter Robbins so what happened in

1075
00:47:10,959 --> 00:47:08,869
December 1980

1076
00:47:12,609 --> 00:47:10,969
according to Robert Shaffer well of

1077
00:47:15,579 --> 00:47:12,619
course Nick Pope wasn't there any more

1078
00:47:16,329 --> 00:47:15,589
than I was so but John burrows was yes

1079
00:47:19,539 --> 00:47:16,339
yes

1080
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:19,549
well Aniston as well sure right

1081
00:47:24,189 --> 00:47:21,650
Penniston the guy who has this magic

1082
00:47:26,829 --> 00:47:24,199
notebook that has binary data that he

1083
00:47:29,109 --> 00:47:26,839
received telepathically from the UFOs

1084
00:47:31,839 --> 00:47:29,119
has messages in it however he didn't

1085
00:47:34,539 --> 00:47:31,849
tell anyone about this for 25 years or

1086
00:47:37,029 --> 00:47:34,549
some such thing so so you feel he just

1087
00:47:39,939 --> 00:47:37,039
made that up that part of it yeah I

1088
00:47:41,529 --> 00:47:39,949
think so there's a lot of this on the

1089
00:47:44,499 --> 00:47:41,539
web if you look at in Ridpath

1090
00:47:46,509 --> 00:47:44,509
site he summarizes it it's not just any

1091
00:47:50,739 --> 00:47:46,519
one thing it's one of these cases where

1092
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:50,749
people apparently saw a either said

1093
00:47:54,090 --> 00:47:52,729
legree entry or more likely a meteor go

1094
00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:54,100
by

1095
00:47:59,640 --> 00:47:56,800
the centuries late at night on what was

1096
00:48:01,080 --> 00:47:59,650
that December 30th or something and so

1097
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:01,090
they went out there and they looked

1098
00:48:06,060 --> 00:48:04,090
around and they saw a flashing light and

1099
00:48:07,500 --> 00:48:06,070
I think they saw some holes that might

1100
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:07,510
or might not have been dug by rabbits

1101
00:48:14,670 --> 00:48:11,520
and then basically they went back in

1102
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:14,680
then to night couple of nights later

1103
00:48:18,180 --> 00:48:16,690
there was a similar thing they saw

1104
00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:18,190
lights in the sky or whatever they went

1105
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:21,250
out again now according to the one the

1106
00:48:29,100 --> 00:48:26,010
video that was on was a CNN or something

1107
00:48:31,100 --> 00:48:29,110
within I think like 84 or something 85

1108
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:31,110
it's on YouTube somewhere where they

1109
00:48:35,070 --> 00:48:33,610
they said they were they went out they

1110
00:48:37,380 --> 00:48:35,080
saw some lights in the sky they were

1111
00:48:39,090 --> 00:48:37,390
frightened and they went back in so it

1112
00:48:40,830 --> 00:48:39,100
doesn't sound very exciting at that

1113
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:40,840
point in time but then now of course

1114
00:48:45,780 --> 00:48:43,330
it's grown and and the thing now landed

1115
00:48:48,660 --> 00:48:45,790
and Penniston says he touched it and so

1116
00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:48,670
on also Burroughs has suffered some

1117
00:48:53,820 --> 00:48:51,250
unusual symptoms almost like radiation

1118
00:48:56,070 --> 00:48:53,830
poisoning in the wake of that which

1119
00:48:58,710 --> 00:48:56,080
brings to mind the cash Landrum case

1120
00:49:01,800 --> 00:48:58,720
yeah I have the same situation it's in

1121
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:01,810
both cases the the reported symptoms

1122
00:49:07,110 --> 00:49:05,530
doesn't match radiation poisoning people

1123
00:49:11,460 --> 00:49:07,120
don't have these you know if somebody is

1124
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:11,470
exposed to intense radiation it's you

1125
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:12,810
know that's kind of cause them problems

1126
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:15,490
yeah you know centers are going to

1127
00:49:18,390 --> 00:49:17,650
happen much sooner than 30 years or

1128
00:49:20,910 --> 00:49:18,400
whatever it is

1129
00:49:23,490 --> 00:49:20,920
oh yeah wait a minute here those

1130
00:49:26,460 --> 00:49:23,500
symptoms occurred almost right away in

1131
00:49:28,410 --> 00:49:26,470
the case of cash Landrum yeah and in the

1132
00:49:31,830 --> 00:49:28,420
case of John Burroughs bro he had

1133
00:49:34,260 --> 00:49:31,840
symptoms pretty shortly after this yeah

1134
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:34,270
they developed it wasn't 30 years later

1135
00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:36,970
not at all well he would be able to

1136
00:49:41,190 --> 00:49:39,250
ascertain that and prove that if he was

1137
00:49:44,670 --> 00:49:41,200
given access to his medical records

1138
00:49:47,130 --> 00:49:44,680
which have been withheld from him for

1139
00:49:49,530 --> 00:49:47,140
years and also they tried to expunge his

1140
00:49:52,530 --> 00:49:49,540
very involvement in the military dodge

1141
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:52,540
in the time period after during and

1142
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:55,450
after the Rendlesham forest claim well

1143
00:49:59,310 --> 00:49:57,370
what why would the military do that do

1144
00:50:03,210 --> 00:49:59,320
you think why if they allegedly did

1145
00:50:06,330 --> 00:50:03,220
there so he claims they did now I talked

1146
00:50:07,859 --> 00:50:06,340
to you you know James McGee hey he knows

1147
00:50:09,299 --> 00:50:07,869
quite a bit about the military and

1148
00:50:11,789 --> 00:50:09,309
medical and all that stuff and he was

1149
00:50:13,259 --> 00:50:11,799
there at Rendlesham although not at the

1150
00:50:15,420 --> 00:50:13,269
time he was there only just like a year

1151
00:50:17,489 --> 00:50:15,430
or so later now he says anytime that

1152
00:50:19,650 --> 00:50:17,499
anybody is discharged from the military

1153
00:50:23,779 --> 00:50:19,660
that they are given copies of their

1154
00:50:25,710 --> 00:50:23,789
medical record at that time and

1155
00:50:30,299 --> 00:50:25,720
basically you'd have to talk to him to

1156
00:50:33,029 --> 00:50:30,309
get the details on this but what what

1157
00:50:36,150 --> 00:50:33,039
Burroughs is claiming doesn't really you

1158
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:36,160
know again it's a it's a claim it isn't

1159
00:50:41,970 --> 00:50:38,170
proven how expunged him from the

1160
00:50:43,109 --> 00:50:41,980
military I'm not aware how you I mean

1161
00:50:46,289 --> 00:50:43,119
it's true that you know there can be

1162
00:50:47,789 --> 00:50:46,299
problems with medical record or with

1163
00:50:51,299 --> 00:50:47,799
military records in fact there was a big

1164
00:50:53,489 --> 00:50:51,309
fire although that didn't affect my that

1165
00:50:56,579 --> 00:50:53,499
was before Rendlesham but some but you

1166
00:50:58,680 --> 00:50:56,589
know just bringing that up didn't show

1167
00:51:00,630 --> 00:50:58,690
that you know records can get lost or

1168
00:51:02,999 --> 00:51:00,640
misplaced but I'm you know again it's

1169
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:03,009
easy to make up a story and say you know

1170
00:51:06,599 --> 00:51:05,170
I'm not denying he has symptoms but you

1171
00:51:08,039 --> 00:51:06,609
know a lot of people have symptoms of a

1172
00:51:11,190 --> 00:51:08,049
lot of things they're not necessarily

1173
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:11,200
caused by the UFO contact okay well this

1174
00:51:14,970 --> 00:51:13,210
is a lot of meanings here and I want to

1175
00:51:16,349 --> 00:51:14,980
get into it more because he basically

1176
00:51:17,999 --> 00:51:16,359
saying that John Burroughs made up the

1177
00:51:19,859 --> 00:51:18,009
whole thing or a lot of it he may have

1178
00:51:22,109 --> 00:51:19,869
suffered the symptoms but the

1179
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:22,119
circumstances and the issues involved in

1180
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:24,130
dealing with the VA let's just talk

1181
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:25,930
about our next segment Robert Schaeffer

1182
00:51:33,940 --> 00:51:28,450
we've got Jean and Chris you're in the

1183
00:51:33,950 --> 00:51:37,450
[Music]

1184
00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:41,050
great minds think alike the network for

1185
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:43,609
the independent finding the genesis

1186
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:48,530
communications network GC and hi this is

1187
00:51:52,839 --> 00:51:50,810
Larry Smith sometimes bad things happen

1188
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:52,849
to good people like when the jeweller

1189
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:54,530
ruined my ring and wouldn't do anything

1190
00:51:58,210 --> 00:51:56,210
about it but when my LegalShield

1191
00:52:00,160 --> 00:51:58,220
attorney called him and told him what my

1192
00:52:02,980 --> 00:52:00,170
rights were I received a check for over

1193
00:52:05,260 --> 00:52:02,990
21 hundred dollars worried less and live

1194
00:52:08,230 --> 00:52:05,270
more with LS protection calm

1195
00:52:11,230 --> 00:52:08,240
that's LS protection calm or call eight

1196
00:52:13,660 --> 00:52:11,240
five five three four zero save again

1197
00:52:16,089 --> 00:52:13,670
eight five five three four zero seven

1198
00:52:16,810 --> 00:52:16,099
two eight three results will vary from

1199
00:52:19,390 --> 00:52:16,820
case to case

1200
00:52:21,490 --> 00:52:19,400
we the people grow cotton wheat fabric

1201
00:52:23,109 --> 00:52:21,500
engraving can bed strips and fibers to

1202
00:52:24,849 --> 00:52:23,119
protect from counterfeit than carding to

1203
00:52:25,300 --> 00:52:24,859
a private bank having a led back at

1204
00:52:27,099 --> 00:52:25,310
interest

1205
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:27,109
forcing taxes to service debt this

1206
00:52:30,430 --> 00:52:28,970
capitalism or was Jefferson correct when

1207
00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:30,440
stating a central bank issuing the

1208
00:52:33,190 --> 00:52:32,089
public currency is a greater menace to

1209
00:52:34,930 --> 00:52:33,200
the liberties of the people than a

1210
00:52:36,370 --> 00:52:34,940
standing army hi Ted I understand I'm

1211
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:36,380
placing a free silver dollar in a book

1212
00:52:41,710 --> 00:52:38,210
that explains our monetary system call

1213
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:41,720
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

1214
00:52:50,980 --> 00:52:44,930
to understand the system call 866 to 237

1215
00:52:53,079 --> 00:52:50,990
that's 800 686 to 237 at 30 day food

1216
00:52:55,030 --> 00:52:53,089
supply calm you can now purchase a

1217
00:52:57,730 --> 00:52:55,040
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1218
00:53:00,490 --> 00:52:57,740
anywhere else a meatless burger dry mix

1219
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1220
00:53:05,170 --> 00:53:02,690
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1221
00:53:07,060 --> 00:53:05,180
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1222
00:53:09,250 --> 00:53:07,070
refrigeration they're packaged in mylar

1223
00:53:11,349 --> 00:53:09,260
bags with an oxygen absorber for a long

1224
00:53:13,420 --> 00:53:11,359
shelf-life they're non-gmo they're

1225
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:13,430
gluten soy nut in chemical free but

1226
00:53:17,349 --> 00:53:15,410
they're loaded with flavor and a good

1227
00:53:19,839 --> 00:53:17,359
source of carbs and protein yet low in

1228
00:53:21,820 --> 00:53:19,849
sodium flavors include Italian spicy

1229
00:53:24,970 --> 00:53:21,830
Mexican six vegetable and black bean

1230
00:53:27,220 --> 00:53:24,980
olive go-to 30-day food supply calm or

1231
00:53:30,670 --> 00:53:27,230
call five four one two two nine zero

1232
00:53:32,859 --> 00:53:30,680
zero one zero and order today eat them

1233
00:53:34,780 --> 00:53:32,869
every day take them camping or save them

1234
00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:34,790
for an emergency check them out at

1235
00:53:40,180 --> 00:53:37,520
30-day food supply calm and click on the

1236
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:40,190
vegan burger icon that's 30 day food

1237
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:42,410
supply calm where all of our products

1238
00:53:54,900 --> 00:53:44,690
are produced in Oregon by Oregon Trail

1239
00:54:02,940 --> 00:53:58,599
welcome back to the para cast the gold

1240
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:02,950
standard of paranormal radio and now

1241
00:54:12,370 --> 00:54:11,330
here's Jane Steinberg Robert Shafer

1242
00:54:15,670 --> 00:54:12,380
joins us

1243
00:54:17,830 --> 00:54:15,680
he's a UFO skeptic been around since the

1244
00:54:19,870 --> 00:54:17,840
early days we're talking about the

1245
00:54:22,620 --> 00:54:19,880
Rendlesham forest case specifically the

1246
00:54:24,730 --> 00:54:22,630
case of John burrows who talked about

1247
00:54:27,099 --> 00:54:24,740
problems dealing with the VA which are

1248
00:54:28,030 --> 00:54:27,109
not unusual we've all heard the news of

1249
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:28,040
what's going on there

1250
00:54:32,740 --> 00:54:30,530
supposedly information about his

1251
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:32,750
military records being expunged etcetera

1252
00:54:37,630 --> 00:54:35,450
etc so let's separate the two things

1253
00:54:40,570 --> 00:54:37,640
here we have symptoms we're not going to

1254
00:54:41,830 --> 00:54:40,580
assume they're not real the discussion

1255
00:54:44,349 --> 00:54:41,840
could be about the cause but you're

1256
00:54:47,260 --> 00:54:44,359
saying Robert that when he says that

1257
00:54:49,660 --> 00:54:47,270
there was hanky-panky with regard to his

1258
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:49,670
medical and overall military records

1259
00:54:53,710 --> 00:54:51,770
he's just making that up I didn't say

1260
00:54:56,590 --> 00:54:53,720
that it's hard to know exactly what

1261
00:54:59,830 --> 00:54:56,600
happened we now know based on recent

1262
00:55:02,140 --> 00:54:59,840
news stories that the VA has been really

1263
00:55:05,650 --> 00:55:02,150
it's a scandal in that they're not just

1264
00:55:07,810 --> 00:55:05,660
failing to provide the medical care to

1265
00:55:10,710 --> 00:55:07,820
veterans who deserve it and who need it

1266
00:55:14,380 --> 00:55:10,720
but also that there that the VA has been

1267
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:14,390
hiding has been fabricating numbers and

1268
00:55:18,820 --> 00:55:16,130
hiding the fact that people are waiting

1269
00:55:20,830 --> 00:55:18,830
years to get medical treatment and so on

1270
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:20,840
so if this is the kind of thing that

1271
00:55:24,690 --> 00:55:22,850
he's talking about well he's not the

1272
00:55:27,370 --> 00:55:24,700
only one that's had this problem this is

1273
00:55:29,220 --> 00:55:27,380
endemic to the VA at least in recent

1274
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:29,230
years and in the current administration

1275
00:55:34,750 --> 00:55:32,450
so he wouldn't be the only one to have

1276
00:55:36,550 --> 00:55:34,760
problems of that kind but to go and

1277
00:55:39,790 --> 00:55:36,560
conclude from this that somehow there's

1278
00:55:42,849 --> 00:55:39,800
some military conspiracy against him to

1279
00:55:45,609 --> 00:55:42,859
you know not provide his care and to and

1280
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:45,619
to remove him from his military records

1281
00:55:48,849 --> 00:55:47,810
I don't see anything that you know that

1282
00:55:51,099 --> 00:55:48,859
would convince me of that

1283
00:55:55,060 --> 00:55:51,109
it all depends again whether you believe

1284
00:55:57,970 --> 00:55:55,070
him doesn't it I guess it does all right

1285
00:56:01,070 --> 00:55:57,980
so that brings us to something you said

1286
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:01,080
to Micah Hanks when he talked to you at

1287
00:56:04,700 --> 00:56:03,330
UFO event and we have some questions

1288
00:56:07,190 --> 00:56:04,710
from Michael we'll ask later but

1289
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:07,200
specifically here with regard to UFO

1290
00:56:12,530 --> 00:56:10,050
witnesses you're referred to at least

1291
00:56:16,130 --> 00:56:12,540
some of them as liars they're making it

1292
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:16,140
all up if you expand on that well is

1293
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:18,090
that what Mike they said because I don't

1294
00:56:21,770 --> 00:56:20,730
recall you don't recall calling UFO

1295
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:21,780
witnesses liars

1296
00:56:26,780 --> 00:56:24,330
no I don't recall that I don't think I

1297
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:26,790
did some of them maybe I think for the

1298
00:56:31,820 --> 00:56:28,890
most part I've always said this that the

1299
00:56:34,250 --> 00:56:31,830
great majority of UFO witnesses are

1300
00:56:36,860 --> 00:56:34,260
people who are perfectly sincere but are

1301
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:36,870
mistaken because of what we've already

1302
00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:40,290
said about human perception and it's

1303
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:44,250
malleability the propensity of a person

1304
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:50,490
to incorporate external information and

1305
00:56:55,820 --> 00:56:53,370
beliefs into a memory because memory is

1306
00:56:58,970 --> 00:56:55,830
malleable that they convince themselves

1307
00:57:02,210 --> 00:56:58,980
they see a large saucer shaped object or

1308
00:57:04,070 --> 00:57:02,220
whatever but it doesn't mean it's true

1309
00:57:06,500 --> 00:57:04,080
but doesn't that doesn't make them a

1310
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:06,510
liar it just means that they've allowed

1311
00:57:10,610 --> 00:57:08,330
their imagination to kind of run away

1312
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:10,620
and that's a very human thing to do I

1313
00:57:15,530 --> 00:57:13,530
know we've all you know been you know

1314
00:57:18,290 --> 00:57:15,540
mistaken about something that we think

1315
00:57:20,210 --> 00:57:18,300
we've seen or done and but I certainly I

1316
00:57:22,460 --> 00:57:20,220
don't use that term to say well they're

1317
00:57:24,770 --> 00:57:22,470
all Liars okay well this is what he said

1318
00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:24,780
on the show last week don't know if you

1319
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:26,160
heard the episode I mentioned it to you

1320
00:57:31,700 --> 00:57:29,370
he specifically said that you called at

1321
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:31,710
least some UFO witnesses liars that fact

1322
00:57:35,990 --> 00:57:33,570
that's his first question here at the

1323
00:57:37,930 --> 00:57:36,000
para cast forums so you're saying you

1324
00:57:41,570 --> 00:57:37,940
didn't say that what did you tell him

1325
00:57:43,220 --> 00:57:41,580
okay wrong saying at least some I I'm

1326
00:57:44,630 --> 00:57:43,230
saying the same thing no at least some

1327
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:44,640
of them are liars they're hoaxers

1328
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:46,170
they're claiming to make to make things

1329
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:48,570
up but I are they're claiming you know

1330
00:57:53,420 --> 00:57:50,370
things that didn't happen but I said

1331
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:53,430
that is not typical that is not average

1332
00:57:58,790 --> 00:57:55,770
I've said that and and I'm saying now

1333
00:58:00,950 --> 00:57:58,800
the great majority of people who believe

1334
00:58:03,410 --> 00:58:00,960
they've seen a UFO are perfectly

1335
00:58:05,210 --> 00:58:03,420
completely sincere but and they have

1336
00:58:08,270 --> 00:58:05,220
seen something that to them is puzzling

1337
00:58:09,980 --> 00:58:08,280
but it is not literally what they saw

1338
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:09,990
because they're mistaken for example

1339
00:58:15,799 --> 00:58:13,290
that the UConn case of 1996 with all

1340
00:58:18,559 --> 00:58:15,809
these 30 people or something in crow

1341
00:58:20,029 --> 00:58:18,569
both west canada seeing this object a

1342
00:58:22,609 --> 00:58:20,039
reporter's a close encounter of the

1343
00:58:24,559 --> 00:58:22,619
first kind mothership and it was doing

1344
00:58:27,739 --> 00:58:24,569
this and doing that and had Windows and

1345
00:58:29,809 --> 00:58:27,749
so on we now know that it matches those

1346
00:58:32,390 --> 00:58:29,819
sightings matched completely with the

1347
00:58:34,670 --> 00:58:32,400
decay of a rocket booster that had been

1348
00:58:36,339 --> 00:58:34,680
launched by the Russians earlier in the

1349
00:58:39,769 --> 00:58:36,349
day that have put a satellite into orbit

1350
00:58:41,900 --> 00:58:39,779
so they saw something but their

1351
00:58:43,459 --> 00:58:41,910
imagination filtered in details that

1352
00:58:45,410 --> 00:58:43,469
were not there because they have this

1353
00:58:47,569 --> 00:58:45,420
idea in their head and called a UFO or

1354
00:58:48,709 --> 00:58:47,579
flying saucer they know what UFOs are

1355
00:58:50,299 --> 00:58:48,719
supposed to be like they're supposed to

1356
00:58:52,849 --> 00:58:50,309
be discs and they have windows and they

1357
00:58:55,609 --> 00:58:52,859
hover and they maneuver and so on and so

1358
00:58:59,450 --> 00:58:55,619
you've conflate the perception that you

1359
00:59:01,630 --> 00:58:59,460
had of this satellite debris flaming

1360
00:59:04,549 --> 00:59:01,640
very brightly and moving very quickly

1361
00:59:06,289 --> 00:59:04,559
across the sky and then you can flight

1362
00:59:08,989 --> 00:59:06,299
with that the idea of what our UFO is

1363
00:59:10,910 --> 00:59:08,999
supposed to be and that's what you've

1364
00:59:13,940 --> 00:59:10,920
got then you've got this report that is

1365
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:13,950
inaccurate but nobody is lying well you

1366
00:59:19,239 --> 00:59:15,930
know I have to agree with you Robert on

1367
00:59:22,729 --> 00:59:19,249
on many cases of untrained observers

1368
00:59:24,769 --> 00:59:22,739
witnessing various types of of unusual

1369
00:59:27,170 --> 00:59:24,779
of anomalies whatever and and then

1370
00:59:29,150 --> 00:59:27,180
confabulating their own personal

1371
00:59:32,029 --> 00:59:29,160
interpretation of what they saw possibly

1372
00:59:33,650 --> 00:59:32,039
glomming onto others descriptions but

1373
00:59:36,079 --> 00:59:33,660
what about trained observers I have a

1374
00:59:38,870 --> 00:59:36,089
question here from Blowfish at perform

1375
00:59:40,309 --> 00:59:38,880
dr. Perik asked calm and he asked what

1376
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:40,319
what are your thoughts on military

1377
00:59:43,969 --> 00:59:42,210
eyewitnesses civilian pilots police

1378
00:59:46,339 --> 00:59:43,979
officers trained observers who report

1379
00:59:49,039 --> 00:59:46,349
unknown flying objects somewhat very

1380
00:59:50,959 --> 00:59:49,049
close in close proximity I do seem to

1381
00:59:53,420 --> 00:59:50,969
recall a case where one of these things

1382
00:59:56,150 --> 00:59:53,430
so the officer claimed hit his car tore

1383
00:59:58,099 --> 00:59:56,160
off his with his aerial cracked his

1384
01:00:00,039 --> 00:59:58,109
windshield right I'm try to remember

1385
01:00:03,499 --> 01:00:00,049
what his name was and Phil clasp

1386
01:00:05,029 --> 01:00:03,509
suggested that sounds to me like a car

1387
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:05,039
that has a police car that's been

1388
01:00:11,630 --> 01:00:09,450
vandalized and it may be that he either

1389
01:00:14,630 --> 01:00:11,640
somebody vandalized it and he jumped the

1390
01:00:16,670 --> 01:00:14,640
conclusion that it was a UFO damaged or

1391
01:00:19,339 --> 01:00:16,680
perhaps he used that as an excuse her

1392
01:00:20,630 --> 01:00:19,349
leaving his vehicle someplace maybe

1393
01:00:23,299 --> 01:00:20,640
where I shouldn't have been but anyway

1394
01:00:25,789 --> 01:00:23,309
but in other words he was lying then in

1395
01:00:28,339 --> 01:00:25,799
that case it's possible I'm not familiar

1396
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:28,349
enough with the details I don't feel

1397
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:29,090
class my

1398
01:00:32,700 --> 01:00:30,650
that are you all right well what about

1399
01:00:35,350 --> 01:00:32,710
training observe up some military pilots

1400
01:00:37,030 --> 01:00:35,360
astronauts let's talk about trained

1401
01:00:39,340 --> 01:00:37,040
observers that phrase what does that

1402
01:00:41,710 --> 01:00:39,350
supposed to mean is there such a thing

1403
01:00:42,310 --> 01:00:41,720
as an observer training class of course

1404
01:00:44,710 --> 01:00:42,320
not

1405
01:00:46,540 --> 01:00:44,720
there isn't never has been there's a big

1406
01:00:48,550 --> 01:00:46,550
nose like now you have to enroll in

1407
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:48,560
observing 101 and then you could become

1408
01:00:50,650 --> 01:00:49,490
a trained observer

1409
01:00:52,750 --> 01:00:50,660
you know what let's use the term

1410
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:52,760
experienced observer okay so we don't

1411
01:00:57,970 --> 01:00:55,570
argue over that experience then what

1412
01:01:01,330 --> 01:00:57,980
having seen a lot of things being a

1413
01:01:04,270 --> 01:01:01,340
pilot being a member of military being a

1414
01:01:06,850 --> 01:01:04,280
police officer people who need to

1415
01:01:08,770 --> 01:01:06,860
accurately report what they see what

1416
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:08,780
they observe there's no such thing as a

1417
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:10,970
Superman or a super observer they're all

1418
01:01:17,110 --> 01:01:15,530
human just like us but if you recall and

1419
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:17,120
of course Leslie Kane is somebody who

1420
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:19,010
thinks that you know pilots and generals

1421
01:01:23,470 --> 01:01:22,250
are super observers and she quotes Hynek

1422
01:01:25,210 --> 01:01:23,480
all over the place she doesn't quote

1423
01:01:27,610 --> 01:01:25,220
hynek's statement saying that

1424
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:27,620
surprisingly military and commercial

1425
01:01:33,250 --> 01:01:30,050
pilots make relatively poor observers

1426
01:01:37,060 --> 01:01:33,260
that's why would that be report why well

1427
01:01:39,100 --> 01:01:37,070
I think the reason is that the pilot has

1428
01:01:40,810 --> 01:01:39,110
one thing and really one thing only on

1429
01:01:43,390 --> 01:01:40,820
his mind when something out of the

1430
01:01:46,570 --> 01:01:43,400
ordinary occurs and that is is it a

1431
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:46,580
danger what do I have to do to to

1432
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:48,530
preserve my aircraft to preserve my

1433
01:01:53,710 --> 01:01:52,010
safety and that of my passengers and he

1434
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:53,720
the pilot is not worried so much about

1435
01:01:57,670 --> 01:01:55,850
the details of this or that or what it

1436
01:01:59,020 --> 01:01:57,680
might be but rather you know isn't going

1437
01:02:01,600 --> 01:01:59,030
to collide with me is there going to be

1438
01:02:06,490 --> 01:02:01,610
a you know you know like a proper wash

1439
01:02:07,900 --> 01:02:06,500
or any kind of a wind from it so I and I

1440
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:07,910
think really that's that's what it is

1441
01:02:12,190 --> 01:02:09,290
there's no such thing as a trained

1442
01:02:14,190 --> 01:02:12,200
observer or you can say an experienced

1443
01:02:17,620 --> 01:02:14,200
observer but an experienced observer

1444
01:02:20,410 --> 01:02:17,630
again nobody has variance in you know

1445
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:20,420
looking at UFOs and and you know get a

1446
01:02:24,370 --> 01:02:21,890
certificate for a number that you've

1447
01:02:27,180 --> 01:02:24,380
seen or something no it's it's these

1448
01:02:29,140 --> 01:02:27,190
people are just like anyone else's and

1449
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:29,150
even the you know you say police

1450
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:32,330
officers well Allen Hynek went out with

1451
01:02:38,050 --> 01:02:35,570
when they had these explosions of

1452
01:02:41,910 --> 01:02:38,060
sightings so to speak is huge flare-up

1453
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:41,920
of sightings in the Midwest in 1966-67

1454
01:02:47,020 --> 01:02:43,490
Hynek when either knee

1455
01:02:48,700 --> 01:02:47,030
rode with the with their pleas in their

1456
01:02:50,770 --> 01:02:48,710
car is this what car says they're going

1457
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:50,780
around and look there it is there it is

1458
01:02:52,540 --> 01:02:51,290
again

1459
01:02:55,030 --> 01:02:52,550
he says well they're pointing at the

1460
01:02:58,780 --> 01:02:55,040
star Arcturus you know there's nothing

1461
01:03:01,270 --> 01:02:58,790
that sets a pilot or or a policeman

1462
01:03:04,300 --> 01:03:01,280
away from anyone else in terms of being

1463
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:04,310
a credible observer well of course they

1464
01:03:11,380 --> 01:03:07,690
also could be used to seeing stars

1465
01:03:13,660 --> 01:03:11,390
planets conventional aircrafts and when

1466
01:03:15,910 --> 01:03:13,670
they report something unusual the

1467
01:03:18,490 --> 01:03:15,920
question is what is it what are they

1468
01:03:19,630 --> 01:03:18,500
seeing and we can talk about that in our

1469
01:03:21,580 --> 01:03:19,640
next segment we'll also have more

1470
01:03:24,190 --> 01:03:21,590
questions we'll also have more questions

1471
01:03:27,100 --> 01:03:24,200
from our listeners and by the way if you

1472
01:03:29,950 --> 01:03:27,110
subscribe to the podcast newsletter go

1473
01:03:32,859 --> 01:03:29,960
to the para cast com the para cast com

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sign up get a free copy of Chris

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O'Brien's secrets of the mysterious

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1568
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comment or question about the para cast

1569
01:08:01,550 --> 01:07:57,870
sent it to news at the para cast com

1570
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:01,560
that's news at the para cast calm and

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01:08:06,700 --> 01:08:03,570
don't forget to visit our famous para

1572
01:08:11,140 --> 01:08:06,710
cast community forums at forum

1573
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para cast job when Chris does that voice

1574
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:14,450
I always want to say the parrot cast but

1575
01:08:17,530 --> 01:08:15,410
I'm not gonna do that

1576
01:08:20,890 --> 01:08:17,540
Robert Shaffer is joining us we're

1577
01:08:24,370 --> 01:08:20,900
talking about witnesses what they see

1578
01:08:27,030 --> 01:08:24,380
what they think they're seeing so it's

1579
01:08:28,749 --> 01:08:27,040
your theory here Robert Shaffer that

1580
01:08:31,959 --> 01:08:28,759
regardless of whether they're

1581
01:08:35,440 --> 01:08:31,969
experienced trained whatever anyone who

1582
01:08:37,420 --> 01:08:35,450
sees a UFO that something that is not

1583
01:08:39,900 --> 01:08:37,430
conventional does not appear to be

1584
01:08:41,890 --> 01:08:39,910
conventional it seems to have

1585
01:08:44,170 --> 01:08:41,900
maneuverability beyond what we normally

1586
01:08:47,260 --> 01:08:44,180
would accept in our aircraft

1587
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:47,270
they're basically mistaken somehow I

1588
01:08:51,099 --> 01:08:49,370
would say that's highly likely of course

1589
01:08:52,690 --> 01:08:51,109
you could always argue that the next

1590
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:52,700
case that comes along will be the real

1591
01:08:57,999 --> 01:08:55,130
one but again if something is supported

1592
01:09:01,240 --> 01:08:58,009
only by eyewitness testimony remember

1593
01:09:03,490 --> 01:09:01,250
with Royal Society of London the world's

1594
01:09:05,769 --> 01:09:03,500
oldest scientific body take no one's

1595
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:05,779
word for it is their motto and in this

1596
01:09:10,420 --> 01:09:07,730
case I would say well perhaps he did see

1597
01:09:12,490 --> 01:09:10,430
something but were there photographs

1598
01:09:15,099 --> 01:09:12,500
where there videos was anything seen on

1599
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:15,109
radar and if so is it consistent you

1600
01:09:18,459 --> 01:09:16,730
know what will happen sometimes if

1601
01:09:20,410 --> 01:09:18,469
somebody a radar observer will say well

1602
01:09:21,700 --> 01:09:20,420
I see something on the radar go out and

1603
01:09:23,769 --> 01:09:21,710
see if there's anything up in the sky

1604
01:09:25,180 --> 01:09:23,779
and something in the radar it looks over

1605
01:09:27,849 --> 01:09:25,190
in the West and the guy looks over in

1606
01:09:29,530 --> 01:09:27,859
the east and says yeah I see I sees an

1607
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:29,540
object well that's confirmation no it's

1608
01:09:34,329 --> 01:09:31,850
not there not in the same place at the

1609
01:09:36,430 --> 01:09:34,339
same time and so on and so on and that

1610
01:09:39,940 --> 01:09:36,440
never really happens that you have this

1611
01:09:42,700 --> 01:09:39,950
consistency because they just don't you

1612
01:09:45,780 --> 01:09:42,710
know all at the same time you're saying

1613
01:09:49,390 --> 01:09:45,790
here there have never been simultaneous

1614
01:09:51,249 --> 01:09:49,400
visual and radar sightings involving

1615
01:09:54,310 --> 01:09:51,259
UFOs what about Washington National

1616
01:09:56,560 --> 01:09:54,320
Airport in 1952 I didn't say there never

1617
01:09:59,410 --> 01:09:56,570
were simultaneous sightings I said that

1618
01:10:01,600 --> 01:09:59,420
there wasn't any real consistency in

1619
01:10:03,970 --> 01:10:01,610
terms of where the objects were how they

1620
01:10:05,229 --> 01:10:03,980
were moving and so on by today's

1621
01:10:09,070 --> 01:10:05,239
standards those were very

1622
01:10:11,350 --> 01:10:09,080
unsophisticated radars in 1952 and in

1623
01:10:14,410 --> 01:10:11,360
fact fill class wrote an article Oh

1624
01:10:16,390 --> 01:10:14,420
sometime around I think 1990 which he

1625
01:10:18,850 --> 01:10:16,400
pointed out this fact that as the radars

1626
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:18,860
have improved over the years as the

1627
01:10:22,440 --> 01:10:20,090
electronics

1628
01:10:25,540 --> 01:10:22,450
is that better there are fewer and fewer

1629
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:25,550
radar UFO cases in most of these cases

1630
01:10:29,830 --> 01:10:26,930
that we have we're looking at the old

1631
01:10:31,570 --> 01:10:29,840
radars so he's arguing that you know as

1632
01:10:34,900 --> 01:10:31,580
the as radar gets better and it's better

1633
01:10:36,970 --> 01:10:34,910
out able to distinguish false targets

1634
01:10:39,970 --> 01:10:36,980
from real ones then we don't see these

1635
01:10:42,130 --> 01:10:39,980
radar UFOs as we as much as we used to

1636
01:10:46,480 --> 01:10:42,140
well Robert have you looked into the

1637
01:10:48,900 --> 01:10:46,490
Socorro case from April I think 64 where

1638
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:48,910
do you come down on Lonnie Zamora and

1639
01:10:54,610 --> 01:10:52,730
Jordan the state patrolman that arrived

1640
01:10:57,340 --> 01:10:54,620
and saw the object disappearing in the

1641
01:10:59,680 --> 01:10:57,350
distance the photographs that were taken

1642
01:11:02,110 --> 01:10:59,690
of the site that were not returned and

1643
01:11:04,510 --> 01:11:02,120
appeared to have been fog was some for

1644
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:04,520
some form of radiation and that's

1645
01:11:08,590 --> 01:11:07,010
according to Hynek have you looked into

1646
01:11:10,750 --> 01:11:08,600
the score case at all where where do you

1647
01:11:13,630 --> 01:11:10,760
come down on that not to a great detail

1648
01:11:15,940 --> 01:11:13,640
not it's not one of my primary cases or

1649
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:15,950
the ones that I have spent much time on

1650
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:17,930
I know class spent a lot of time on it

1651
01:11:22,390 --> 01:11:20,570
and and of course now recently we have

1652
01:11:24,190 --> 01:11:22,400
Anthony Braga Lea who's claiming that it

1653
01:11:27,220 --> 01:11:24,200
was a student hoax and that this is

1654
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:27,230
somehow proved I could believe perhaps a

1655
01:11:31,780 --> 01:11:29,690
student hoax but I haven't seen any

1656
01:11:33,460 --> 01:11:31,790
proof that that is in fact the case or

1657
01:11:35,650 --> 01:11:33,470
it could be and frankly I don't know how

1658
01:11:36,130 --> 01:11:35,660
they would have done it I mean very

1659
01:11:38,050 --> 01:11:36,140
clever

1660
01:11:39,670 --> 01:11:38,060
glad you said that especially

1661
01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:39,680
engineering students but I don't know

1662
01:11:44,260 --> 01:11:41,330
how you would fake a thing like that in

1663
01:11:46,660 --> 01:11:44,270
the daylight especially yeah but the

1664
01:11:50,350 --> 01:11:46,670
most reasonable explanation that I have

1665
01:11:53,260 --> 01:11:50,360
heard is suggestion that this was an

1666
01:11:55,540 --> 01:11:53,270
early propane balloon which today of

1667
01:11:57,700 --> 01:11:55,550
course is a familiar sight but back then

1668
01:11:59,040 --> 01:11:57,710
it was not people knew about hot-air

1669
01:12:02,470 --> 01:11:59,050
balloons but the notion of a

1670
01:12:07,990 --> 01:12:02,480
self-contained a propane powered hot-air

1671
01:12:11,140 --> 01:12:08,000
balloon was itself was not you know was

1672
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:11,150
not common in those days and so it's

1673
01:12:14,950 --> 01:12:13,010
possible I think that you know somebody

1674
01:12:16,870 --> 01:12:14,960
was trying out a thing like this he saw

1675
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:16,880
it doesn't you know he said there was a

1676
01:12:22,510 --> 01:12:20,810
whoosh and it went off and so on and in

1677
01:12:25,990 --> 01:12:22,520
flew to the southwest into a fairly

1678
01:12:27,670 --> 01:12:26,000
stiff breeze well again that's what some

1679
01:12:30,130 --> 01:12:27,680
people say I'm not completely sure

1680
01:12:32,020 --> 01:12:30,140
that's the case but be that as it may

1681
01:12:33,850 --> 01:12:32,030
now some people said in our class was

1682
01:12:37,359 --> 01:12:33,860
convinced that that the whole thing

1683
01:12:39,390 --> 01:12:37,369
was a hoax and that zamora was in on it

1684
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:39,400
he was you know he was part of it and

1685
01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:41,690
did because they wanted to get tourists

1686
01:12:46,090 --> 01:12:44,210
in there now I'm not sure I really

1687
01:12:49,660 --> 01:12:46,100
believe that that's a that's a real

1688
01:12:52,570 --> 01:12:49,670
stretch yes if it was hopes I think that

1689
01:12:54,580 --> 01:12:52,580
Zamora was was the hope seed not the

1690
01:12:57,879 --> 01:12:54,590
hoaxer in other words it was a hoax on

1691
01:12:59,950 --> 01:12:57,889
him and one of the points that regalia

1692
01:13:02,229 --> 01:12:59,960
makes is that you know because this is a

1693
01:13:05,229 --> 01:13:02,239
small town a college town and so on and

1694
01:13:07,030 --> 01:13:05,239
that as a moral was sort of he was not

1695
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:07,040
popular among the college students

1696
01:13:11,050 --> 01:13:09,770
because he was considered to buzzkill he

1697
01:13:13,300 --> 01:13:11,060
was a guy who would check to see if you

1698
01:13:15,550 --> 01:13:13,310
had alcohol and whatever and whatever so

1699
01:13:19,180 --> 01:13:15,560
it's plausible that they might have

1700
01:13:20,950 --> 01:13:19,190
wanted to play some you know some sort

1701
01:13:23,859 --> 01:13:20,960
of trick on him or hoax on him rather

1702
01:13:26,979 --> 01:13:23,869
than having him be involved in the hoax

1703
01:13:29,260 --> 01:13:26,989
it's something that you know when when

1704
01:13:31,629 --> 01:13:29,270
you think about these cases it might be

1705
01:13:33,490 --> 01:13:31,639
large hoaxes might or might not be I

1706
01:13:35,530 --> 01:13:33,500
mean you have to ask who was in on it

1707
01:13:38,290 --> 01:13:35,540
and who was fooled by it

1708
01:13:40,750 --> 01:13:38,300
so using that example as a possible

1709
01:13:42,310 --> 01:13:40,760
explanation what about the Phoenix

1710
01:13:44,649 --> 01:13:42,320
lights case do you think that that was a

1711
01:13:46,359 --> 01:13:44,659
hoax by the military oh not at all no

1712
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:46,369
that one is the opening shot there well

1713
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:48,290
there's two parts of it okay now I think

1714
01:13:52,540 --> 01:13:50,570
we can all agree I'm not I'm not sure

1715
01:13:54,970 --> 01:13:52,550
about this but I think most people would

1716
01:13:56,740 --> 01:13:54,980
agree that the second part of it part of

1717
01:13:59,350 --> 01:13:56,750
the Phoenix lights that occurred after

1718
01:14:01,600 --> 01:13:59,360
10:00 p.m. was the flare drop by the

1719
01:14:04,030 --> 01:14:01,610
Maryland Air National Guard I think we

1720
01:14:06,129 --> 01:14:04,040
have that nailed down pretty well dr.

1721
01:14:08,979 --> 01:14:06,139
Lynn wouldn't agree but I think most

1722
01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:08,989
people would I mentioned this once had

1723
01:14:13,510 --> 01:14:11,330
slinky tie by the way folks can I yes

1724
01:14:16,419 --> 01:14:13,520
who who has a sort of a little cottage

1725
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:16,429
industry of promoting the Phoenix lights

1726
01:14:22,419 --> 01:14:19,730
I did have a conversation with James Fox

1727
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:22,429
about this a little bit and he did not

1728
01:14:28,629 --> 01:14:25,130
disagree when I said that the second

1729
01:14:31,330 --> 01:14:28,639
part was the flare drops I think so

1730
01:14:32,919 --> 01:14:31,340
we really then have to ask well what

1731
01:14:35,260 --> 01:14:32,929
about the first part that people said

1732
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:35,270
they saw this large triangle well I've

1733
01:14:40,870 --> 01:14:37,250
written this up if you go to my blog bad

1734
01:14:43,780 --> 01:14:40,880
ufos calm and there's a search box there

1735
01:14:45,189 --> 01:14:43,790
and you plug in Phoenix lights you'll

1736
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:45,199
find what I've written about it

1737
01:14:47,709 --> 01:14:47,449
basically these were aircraft there was

1738
01:14:50,830 --> 01:14:47,719
some

1739
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:50,840
thing called operation Snowbird which is

1740
01:14:56,109 --> 01:14:53,690
a it's an ongoing program it's uh it's a

1741
01:14:58,270 --> 01:14:56,119
pilot training program for the Air

1742
01:15:00,370 --> 01:14:58,280
National Guard and now they have even a

1743
01:15:02,620 --> 01:15:00,380
foreign pilots being trained these were

1744
01:15:05,919 --> 01:15:02,630
probably eight tens that had flown off

1745
01:15:07,540 --> 01:15:05,929
to another airbase probably Las Vegas

1746
01:15:10,229 --> 01:15:07,550
and come back they were following the

1747
01:15:12,910 --> 01:15:10,239
path of the so-called flying triangle

1748
01:15:15,189 --> 01:15:12,920
was following that superhighway if you

1749
01:15:17,410 --> 01:15:15,199
will the air corridor from Vegas down

1750
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:17,420
through Phoenix and Tucson there were

1751
01:15:22,330 --> 01:15:21,050
several people who saw one fellow with

1752
01:15:24,910 --> 01:15:22,340
binoculars another fellow with the

1753
01:15:27,069 --> 01:15:24,920
telescope saw the lights and said they

1754
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:27,079
were aircraft you know they went right

1755
01:15:31,089 --> 01:15:29,449
over Phoenix and then came down and said

1756
01:15:33,700 --> 01:15:31,099
they appeared to be following highway

1757
01:15:36,549 --> 01:15:33,710
interstate 10 and I think those were the

1758
01:15:39,609 --> 01:15:36,559
very last sightings were just outside of

1759
01:15:41,910 --> 01:15:39,619
Tucson from people along Interstate 10

1760
01:15:44,890 --> 01:15:41,920
and again we have and some of them they

1761
01:15:46,779 --> 01:15:44,900
reported it as being you know remarkable

1762
01:15:49,089 --> 01:15:46,789
looking and having this you know effect

1763
01:15:51,100 --> 01:15:49,099
on them and so on which is interesting

1764
01:15:53,500 --> 01:15:51,110
this psychological statement is not a

1765
01:15:56,259 --> 01:15:53,510
statement of you know any kind of

1766
01:15:58,060 --> 01:15:56,269
factual items but these things Bay very

1767
01:16:00,850 --> 01:15:58,070
much like airplanes that were going to

1768
01:16:04,270 --> 01:16:00,860
land why would these UFOs follow the

1769
01:16:05,979 --> 01:16:04,280
highway in and then apparently then just

1770
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:05,989
disappear as if they were going to land

1771
01:16:10,629 --> 01:16:08,090
that davis-monthan Air Force Base which

1772
01:16:11,950 --> 01:16:10,639
is what these eight tents did five of

1773
01:16:16,419 --> 01:16:11,960
them and we know that this was not a

1774
01:16:18,489 --> 01:16:16,429
single object because there was a fellow

1775
01:16:22,660 --> 01:16:18,499
we called the name right now who had a

1776
01:16:25,209 --> 01:16:22,670
video of the lights of the triangle

1777
01:16:27,459 --> 01:16:25,219
break it here as that point we'll

1778
01:16:29,649 --> 01:16:27,469
continue with that video more detail

1779
01:16:35,510 --> 01:16:29,659
Robert Shafer trainee Jean and Chris

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01:20:20,989 --> 01:20:18,570
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01:20:22,759 --> 01:20:20,999
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1875
01:20:25,759 --> 01:20:22,769
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1876
01:20:28,759 --> 01:20:25,769
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1877
01:20:29,540 --> 01:20:28,769
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1878
01:20:31,279 --> 01:20:29,550
you waiting for

1879
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:31,289
pull out your major credit or debit card

1880
01:20:39,739 --> 01:20:37,170
call 185 905 my tb1 855 905 my TV say

1881
01:20:45,109 --> 01:20:39,749
goodbye to the Cable Guy cut costs and

1882
01:20:49,530 --> 01:20:45,119
get more one 855 905 my TV 180 55 905 my

1883
01:20:56,900 --> 01:20:53,860
[Music]

1884
01:20:59,210 --> 01:20:56,910
this is the wrong tire co-author of the

1885
01:21:05,750 --> 01:20:59,220
UFO encyclopedia in other books you're

1886
01:21:07,970 --> 01:21:05,760
listening to the parrot cap Robert Shaye

1887
01:21:09,980 --> 01:21:07,980
for joining us we start with our

1888
01:21:12,620 --> 01:21:09,990
discussion of the Phoenix lights lights

1889
01:21:15,470 --> 01:21:12,630
a lights be the two different events so

1890
01:21:18,290 --> 01:21:15,480
we were talking about a video showing

1891
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:18,300
triangles here Robert tell us more

1892
01:21:24,500 --> 01:21:21,330
there was a guy named Terry Proctor who

1893
01:21:27,110 --> 01:21:24,510
took a video seems to have the only

1894
01:21:29,480 --> 01:21:27,120
video of this so-called triangle the

1895
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:29,490
first part of the Phoenix lights Phoenix

1896
01:21:33,590 --> 01:21:32,130
lights a somebody did a oh I think it

1897
01:21:36,260 --> 01:21:33,600
was from the Discovery Channel program

1898
01:21:38,270 --> 01:21:36,270
UFOs over Phoenix they basically do the

1899
01:21:40,430 --> 01:21:38,280
lines between these objects at the

1900
01:21:42,680 --> 01:21:40,440
different times and it's clear that over

1901
01:21:44,210 --> 01:21:42,690
that period of 43 seconds they change

1902
01:21:45,860 --> 01:21:44,220
their position with respect to each

1903
01:21:47,750 --> 01:21:45,870
other in other words is we're not solid

1904
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:47,760
objects fixed on a wing or something

1905
01:21:51,710 --> 01:21:49,770
like that they were five separate

1906
01:21:54,350 --> 01:21:51,720
objects that were flying together in

1907
01:21:55,790 --> 01:21:54,360
formation five separate aircraft so as I

1908
01:21:59,390 --> 01:21:55,800
said if you just just plug the word

1909
01:22:01,340 --> 01:21:59,400
Phoenix into my search box on Bad UFOs

1910
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:01,350
and you'll find what I'm talking about

1911
01:22:06,590 --> 01:22:03,810
this is a picture of some eight hands

1912
01:22:08,990 --> 01:22:06,600
flying in formation and there's a frame

1913
01:22:11,390 --> 01:22:09,000
from the Proctor video and more

1914
01:22:14,420 --> 01:22:11,400
discussion of ative operation Snowbird

1915
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:14,430
and so on in fact brandy Fitzgerald who

1916
01:22:19,450 --> 01:22:17,250
I met ages ago I used to know him back

1917
01:22:22,790 --> 01:22:19,460
when I was in the East Coast he wrote a

1918
01:22:24,830 --> 01:22:22,800
story about this in the police'll

1919
01:22:27,140 --> 01:22:24,840
Reader's Digest and this one this

1920
01:22:29,300 --> 01:22:27,150
particular or this different article he

1921
01:22:31,040 --> 01:22:29,310
wrote an examiner article he said once

1922
01:22:32,930 --> 01:22:31,050
beyond the southern suburbs of Phoenix

1923
01:22:35,900 --> 01:22:32,940
the formation of Lights followed

1924
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:35,910
interstate 10 towards Tucson now why

1925
01:22:40,340 --> 01:22:38,010
would a extraterrestrial vehicles or

1926
01:22:42,530 --> 01:22:40,350
strange UFOs whatever they were follow

1927
01:22:44,180 --> 01:22:42,540
the interstate 10 towards Tucson well

1928
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:44,190
they're airplanes going to land at

1929
01:22:49,250 --> 01:22:46,650
davis-monthan Air Force Base in Tucson

1930
01:22:51,350 --> 01:22:49,260
an interstate 10 will basically guide

1931
01:22:53,750 --> 01:22:51,360
you right into it my question is these

1932
01:22:56,210 --> 01:22:53,760
types of flights occur routinely why all

1933
01:22:58,160 --> 01:22:56,220
of a sudden one night everybody claims

1934
01:23:00,170 --> 01:22:58,170
that they see and we're talking quite a

1935
01:23:03,020 --> 01:23:00,180
hundreds of witnesses claiming they see

1936
01:23:05,660 --> 01:23:03,030
something extraordinary why all of a

1937
01:23:08,180 --> 01:23:05,670
sudden one night would routine fly

1938
01:23:10,130 --> 01:23:08,190
activity be misconstrued as something I

1939
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:10,140
strange it doesn't make sense to me

1940
01:23:15,350 --> 01:23:12,330
well it's probably not that often that

1941
01:23:19,310 --> 01:23:15,360
five aircraft go off in a formation and

1942
01:23:20,959 --> 01:23:19,320
fly to Vegas or some other place like

1943
01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:20,969
that well let me read just what I have

1944
01:23:26,390 --> 01:23:24,090
there it says March 13th 1997 was the

1945
01:23:28,820 --> 01:23:26,400
last night of operation Snowbird for the

1946
01:23:31,220 --> 01:23:28,830
year so obviously any aircraft that had

1947
01:23:33,590 --> 01:23:31,230
flown off to other destinations such as

1948
01:23:35,689 --> 01:23:33,600
Las Vegas had to return to Tucson James

1949
01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:35,699
McGaha reconstructs the story of the

1950
01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:38,489
v-shaped formation as follows five eight

1951
01:23:42,470 --> 01:23:40,770
ten jets from operation Snowbird had

1952
01:23:44,630 --> 01:23:42,480
flown from Tucson to Nellis Air Force

1953
01:23:46,910 --> 01:23:44,640
Base near Las Vegas several days earlier

1954
01:23:49,070 --> 01:23:46,920
and we're now returning the a-10 jets

1955
01:23:51,229 --> 01:23:49,080
were flying VFR that is visual flight

1956
01:23:52,850 --> 01:23:51,239
rules so there was no need for them to

1957
01:23:54,890 --> 01:23:52,860
check in with aircraft along the route

1958
01:23:56,689 --> 01:23:54,900
they were following the main air

1959
01:23:59,240 --> 01:23:56,699
corridor for air traffic traveling that

1960
01:24:01,280 --> 01:23:59,250
route the highway in the sky why AHA why

1961
01:24:03,290 --> 01:24:01,290
a UFO would follow us air traffic

1962
01:24:05,390 --> 01:24:03,300
corridors is a mystery because they were

1963
01:24:07,010 --> 01:24:05,400
flying in formation mode they did not

1964
01:24:08,390 --> 01:24:07,020
have on their familiar blinking

1965
01:24:11,209 --> 01:24:08,400
collision lights but instead their

1966
01:24:13,250 --> 01:24:11,219
formation lights in any case FAA rules

1967
01:24:15,860 --> 01:24:13,260
concerning aircraft lights in flight

1968
01:24:17,090 --> 01:24:15,870
attitude altitudes etc do not apply to

1969
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:17,100
military aircraft

1970
01:24:21,020 --> 01:24:19,650
the a-10 flew over the Phoenix area flew

1971
01:24:23,150 --> 01:24:21,030
on the Tucson and landed at

1972
01:24:24,830 --> 01:24:23,160
davis-monthan and I think that pretty

1973
01:24:26,380 --> 01:24:24,840
well explains it and and there was an

1974
01:24:28,820 --> 01:24:26,390
important point there that there the

1975
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:28,830
formation light civilian aircraft don't

1976
01:24:32,870 --> 01:24:30,570
have formation lines a formation light

1977
01:24:34,070 --> 01:24:32,880
is something like a landing light and so

1978
01:24:35,750 --> 01:24:34,080
some people said they had their landing

1979
01:24:37,850 --> 01:24:35,760
lights on these are separate lights are

1980
01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:37,860
very bright now they're not intended for

1981
01:24:41,900 --> 01:24:39,449
landing or antenna so that the other

1982
01:24:44,060 --> 01:24:41,910
aircraft in the so that the aircraft in

1983
01:24:46,250 --> 01:24:44,070
the formation could see each other this

1984
01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:46,260
also doesn't happen all the time the

1985
01:24:49,310 --> 01:24:47,730
reason though that there were so many

1986
01:24:52,130 --> 01:24:49,320
people out there you remember this was

1987
01:24:54,919 --> 01:24:52,140
the time when the comet the hale-bopp

1988
01:24:57,050 --> 01:24:54,929
comet was at its brightest as seen from

1989
01:24:59,930 --> 01:24:57,060
Earth and so a lot of people went out to

1990
01:25:01,430 --> 01:24:59,940
try to see it when the day were looking

1991
01:25:05,030 --> 01:25:01,440
at the Commodore looking for the comet

1992
01:25:06,709 --> 01:25:05,040
and then this flight went over now also

1993
01:25:08,330 --> 01:25:06,719
explains why so many people saw the

1994
01:25:11,060 --> 01:25:08,340
flare drop when it occurred it has

1995
01:25:12,979 --> 01:25:11,070
occurred at other times but not nearly

1996
01:25:15,770 --> 01:25:12,989
as many people see it so for whatever

1997
01:25:17,450 --> 01:25:15,780
reason the operation Snowbird was having

1998
01:25:18,710 --> 01:25:17,460
a really busy night that one night when

1999
01:25:21,470 --> 01:25:18,720
the people were out looking at the

2000
01:25:24,560 --> 01:25:21,480
and the result was this legend of the

2001
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:24,570
Phoenix lights that has proved to be

2002
01:25:30,250 --> 01:25:26,970
very should we say convenient for some

2003
01:25:33,380 --> 01:25:30,260
people to promote and to continue to

2004
01:25:36,530 --> 01:25:33,390
sort of beat that dead horse and so here

2005
01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:36,540
we have it once a UFO story reaches

2006
01:25:41,750 --> 01:25:38,970
sufficient critical mass it will never

2007
01:25:44,090 --> 01:25:41,760
die like Roswell I think there's no real

2008
01:25:45,650 --> 01:25:44,100
proof of anything out of the ordinary

2009
01:25:47,690 --> 01:25:45,660
happened in Roswell we have a very good

2010
01:25:49,460 --> 01:25:47,700
explanation and project mogul and so on

2011
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:49,470
but it doesn't matter what the facts are

2012
01:25:53,570 --> 01:25:51,810
this become such a big thing or the

2013
01:25:55,820 --> 01:25:53,580
notion of the men in black or something

2014
01:25:57,620 --> 01:25:55,830
it's it's reached a critical mass once

2015
01:25:58,970 --> 01:25:57,630
it reaches a critical mass you know it

2016
01:26:00,950 --> 01:25:58,980
will never disappear there's always

2017
01:26:02,750 --> 01:26:00,960
going to be people believing it and

2018
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:02,760
promoting it no matter what the facts

2019
01:26:07,580 --> 01:26:04,770
might be well these are the men in black

2020
01:26:09,740 --> 01:26:07,590
Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones got very

2021
01:26:11,510 --> 01:26:09,750
rich over it right

2022
01:26:13,370 --> 01:26:11,520
so I don't know and I find some of those

2023
01:26:13,970 --> 01:26:13,380
stories to be incredible myself but

2024
01:26:16,340 --> 01:26:13,980
there you go

2025
01:26:18,350 --> 01:26:16,350
you know I'm thinking here Chris maybe

2026
01:26:20,750 --> 01:26:18,360
we should go back to the remaining

2027
01:26:22,970 --> 01:26:20,760
questions from Micah Hanks since we

2028
01:26:25,100 --> 01:26:22,980
dealt with the issue about what portion

2029
01:26:27,050 --> 01:26:25,110
of UFO witnesses might be Liars you want

2030
01:26:29,060 --> 01:26:27,060
to look up that set of questions Chris

2031
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:29,070
and go on with them well Micah Hanks was

2032
01:26:33,620 --> 01:26:31,410
the one that posted the question about

2033
01:26:35,450 --> 01:26:33,630
military eyewitnesses pilots police

2034
01:26:37,460 --> 01:26:35,460
officers who report unknown flying

2035
01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:37,470
objects but his other question is a

2036
01:26:41,480 --> 01:26:39,570
little bit more I think simple and that

2037
01:26:43,850 --> 01:26:41,490
is Robert do you think the earth is the

2038
01:26:45,950 --> 01:26:43,860
only planet with intelligent life forms

2039
01:26:47,930 --> 01:26:45,960
or in the universe I never said that

2040
01:26:49,730 --> 01:26:47,940
everybody seems to think I said that I

2041
01:26:53,030 --> 01:26:49,740
mean I considered at the be shall we say

2042
01:26:55,160 --> 01:26:53,040
like the number one UFO fallacy that's

2043
01:26:56,780 --> 01:26:55,170
going around is when I tell somebody

2044
01:26:59,480 --> 01:26:56,790
well I really don't believe any of these

2045
01:27:02,300 --> 01:26:59,490
sightings and crashes whatever a proof

2046
01:27:03,950 --> 01:27:02,310
of anything alien or whatever they say

2047
01:27:05,270 --> 01:27:03,960
what makes you so sure that we're the

2048
01:27:08,060 --> 01:27:05,280
only intelligent life in the universe

2049
01:27:09,470 --> 01:27:08,070
and I say I never said that people just

2050
01:27:12,020 --> 01:27:09,480
infer it they just jump to that

2051
01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:12,030
conclusion most people have no idea how

2052
01:27:16,370 --> 01:27:13,770
huge the universe is it's it's

2053
01:27:18,170 --> 01:27:16,380
unbelievably large I mean we talk - yeah

2054
01:27:20,690 --> 01:27:18,180
the Drake Equation would would suggest

2055
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:20,700
that there are billions of billions and

2056
01:27:25,420 --> 01:27:22,530
billions of civilizations out there

2057
01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:25,430
you've got billions of stars in each

2058
01:27:30,440 --> 01:27:28,050
what is it uh proximately 100 billion

2059
01:27:32,550 --> 01:27:30,450
stars in our own Milky Way and recent

2060
01:27:34,230 --> 01:27:32,560
data seems to suggest that planets are

2061
01:27:37,170 --> 01:27:34,240
extremely common we thought before that

2062
01:27:38,910 --> 01:27:37,180
planets might be kind of common now it

2063
01:27:41,220 --> 01:27:38,920
appears to be even more than that it

2064
01:27:44,340 --> 01:27:41,230
appears to be more or less a hundred

2065
01:27:46,770 --> 01:27:44,350
percent of star systems individual stars

2066
01:27:48,900 --> 01:27:46,780
have planets not necessarily inhabited

2067
01:27:50,700 --> 01:27:48,910
planets or even habitable but at least

2068
01:27:52,230 --> 01:27:50,710
planets are there and again it's like

2069
01:27:54,390 --> 01:27:52,240
you said with the Drake Equation and

2070
01:27:56,490 --> 01:27:54,400
laws or large numbers you take billions

2071
01:27:58,440 --> 01:27:56,500
of stars most of which have planets of

2072
01:28:01,680 --> 01:27:58,450
some kind then you take billions of

2073
01:28:03,750 --> 01:28:01,690
galaxies each with billions of stars we

2074
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:03,760
know that it's possible for life to

2075
01:28:06,030 --> 01:28:05,530
evolve because hey it happened at least

2076
01:28:07,980 --> 01:28:06,040
once

2077
01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:07,990
Stephen bar some might debate that my

2078
01:28:12,810 --> 01:28:10,690
friend yeah well maybe oh yeah that's

2079
01:28:15,750 --> 01:28:12,820
right yeah they say well somebody poof

2080
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:15,760
said poof and put us here I think most

2081
01:28:19,770 --> 01:28:17,770
of us listening to this can agree that

2082
01:28:21,480 --> 01:28:19,780
life on Earth is very old it goes back

2083
01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:21,490
hundreds of millions of years affect

2084
01:28:26,580 --> 01:28:23,290
billions of years and very simple life

2085
01:28:28,590 --> 01:28:26,590
forms and one celled organisms and so on

2086
01:28:30,420 --> 01:28:28,600
there's absolutely nothing to prevent

2087
01:28:32,190 --> 01:28:30,430
this I mean the laws of physics are the

2088
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:32,200
same everywhere that's I think we seem

2089
01:28:36,900 --> 01:28:34,570
to keep discovering over and over again

2090
01:28:38,610 --> 01:28:36,910
and we've never found any exceptions the

2091
01:28:40,770 --> 01:28:38,620
laws of physics that made it possible

2092
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:40,780
for life to evolve here on earth

2093
01:28:45,270 --> 01:28:42,850
certainly make it possible for life to

2094
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:45,280
evolve many other places I'm not gonna

2095
01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:47,290
question that at all what I am gonna say

2096
01:28:53,250 --> 01:28:49,330
though yes yeah yeah but who says that

2097
01:28:55,140 --> 01:28:53,260
they're coming here to exactly how I've

2098
01:28:57,360 --> 01:28:55,150
been saying that for years myself it

2099
01:28:59,340 --> 01:28:57,370
would be just as difficult for them to

2100
01:29:01,290 --> 01:28:59,350
get here as it would be for us to get

2101
01:29:03,090 --> 01:29:01,300
there well based on our level of

2102
01:29:05,160 --> 01:29:03,100
technology if you're looking at a race

2103
01:29:07,440 --> 01:29:05,170
that's perhaps you know hundreds of

2104
01:29:10,710 --> 01:29:07,450
thousands of years technologically ahead

2105
01:29:12,420 --> 01:29:10,720
of us and has access to impossible you

2106
01:29:14,940 --> 01:29:12,430
know as arthur c clarke would put it

2107
01:29:17,790 --> 01:29:14,950
magic technology that would appear as

2108
01:29:20,430 --> 01:29:17,800
magic to us who's to say that they don't

2109
01:29:22,530 --> 01:29:20,440
have the capability of somehow going

2110
01:29:25,410 --> 01:29:22,540
through the reaches of space and and

2111
01:29:28,260 --> 01:29:25,420
conquering the the great distances well

2112
01:29:30,780 --> 01:29:28,270
again when new laws of physics are found

2113
01:29:33,150 --> 01:29:30,790
they don't repeal the ones that we have

2114
01:29:34,920 --> 01:29:33,160
already they add information to them

2115
01:29:37,380 --> 01:29:34,930
they add at the margins you know

2116
01:29:40,410 --> 01:29:37,390
Einstein's relativity did not repeal

2117
01:29:42,330 --> 01:29:40,420
what we knew about Newton in force and

2118
01:29:44,190 --> 01:29:42,340
you know for every action there's an

2119
01:29:46,049 --> 01:29:44,200
equal and opposite reaction and so on

2120
01:29:48,989 --> 01:29:46,059
all those Newtonian laws are

2121
01:29:50,639 --> 01:29:48,999
still valid even under relativity except

2122
01:29:53,219 --> 01:29:50,649
that sort of at the margins at extremely

2123
01:29:55,739 --> 01:29:53,229
high velocities which of course we could

2124
01:29:56,309 --> 01:29:55,749
not observe in the 17th in the 18th

2125
01:29:58,409 --> 01:29:56,319
century

2126
01:29:59,899 --> 01:29:58,419
and I mean much higher velocities and

2127
01:30:04,709 --> 01:29:59,909
orbital velocities and things

2128
01:30:07,859 --> 01:30:04,719
relativistic velocities the laws they

2129
01:30:09,689 --> 01:30:07,869
need supplements who the show that to

2130
01:30:12,179 --> 01:30:09,699
calculate the effects because of that

2131
01:30:14,159 --> 01:30:12,189
but the old laws are still valid and the

2132
01:30:17,250 --> 01:30:14,169
same thing here is that the laws we have

2133
01:30:18,869 --> 01:30:17,260
now that say that you cannot go faster

2134
01:30:21,750 --> 01:30:18,879
than light and more than that that you

2135
01:30:24,689 --> 01:30:21,760
as you attempt to go close to the speed

2136
01:30:27,529 --> 01:30:24,699
of light that the energy required even

2137
01:30:29,939 --> 01:30:27,539
for a small thing is absurdly high

2138
01:30:37,169 --> 01:30:29,949
Robert Shaffer joining gene and Chris

2139
01:30:39,179 --> 01:30:37,179
you're in the para cast not just an

2140
01:30:42,389 --> 01:30:39,189
alternative to the mainstream media

2141
01:30:43,290 --> 01:30:42,399
we're the premier independent talk radio

2142
01:30:47,549 --> 01:30:43,300
network

2143
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we are G C n first game attack of the

2144
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Rockets and it was a critically

2145
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acclaimed success and now there is the

2146
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coming of the protectors a former

2147
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military intelligence man is contacted

2148
01:31:00,000 --> 01:30:57,550
by a space woman in a dream a dream that

2149
01:31:01,589 --> 01:31:00,010
turns out to be a nightmare because evil

2150
01:31:02,849 --> 01:31:01,599
forces on our distant planet are

2151
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planning to conquer the earth

2152
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this is gripping science fiction of the

2153
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classic kind attack of the rock codes

2154
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and the coming of the protectors find

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out more at Rocco's calm that's rock oh

2156
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it's our Ock oids calm so here's what

2157
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happened I was placing an order online

2158
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the site went down it took hours before

2159
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it returned but I'd already placed the

2160
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order with another company if your site

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goes down you could lose business and if

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2171
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again don't miss these prices of 50 by

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thousand you can't afford to rent with

2186
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these prices

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imagine a 70 by 100 foot church building

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for under sixty nine thousand dollars

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with the economy improving and interest

2190
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rates still at historic lows you can't

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2218
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2219
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2220
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2221
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2223
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2228
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2238
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2239
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2240
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2241
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that makes heart and body extract as

2242
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great a value now as it was the first

2243
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2244
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happy heart call eight six six two nine

2245
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[Music]

2246
01:35:03,319 --> 01:34:57,719
this reason you're listening to the

2247
01:35:06,140 --> 01:35:03,329
podcast to cut this explanation about

2248
01:35:08,569 --> 01:35:06,150
light travels short Robert Shaffer you

2249
01:35:10,669 --> 01:35:08,579
don't believe in work drive well the

2250
01:35:13,879 --> 01:35:10,679
warp drive was an idea that was dreamed

2251
01:35:17,330 --> 01:35:13,889
up on Star Trek not because of anything

2252
01:35:18,950 --> 01:35:17,340
that a physicist to come up with I so as

2253
01:35:20,569 --> 01:35:18,960
far as you know they say no so he's been

2254
01:35:22,729 --> 01:35:20,579
experimenting with a warp drive well

2255
01:35:25,459 --> 01:35:22,739
that's a lund some pretty valid

2256
01:35:28,819 --> 01:35:25,469
imagination when are they experimenting

2257
01:35:30,589 --> 01:35:28,829
with none of that far as I'm aware and

2258
01:35:32,060 --> 01:35:30,599
and yet if you look it wasn't really

2259
01:35:34,069 --> 01:35:32,070
NASA it was some guy who had a NASA

2260
01:35:36,890 --> 01:35:34,079
contract once who thought he knew how to

2261
01:35:39,290 --> 01:35:36,900
build a Star Trek type engine all the

2262
01:35:41,959 --> 01:35:39,300
guy I'll do Barry how do you say the

2263
01:35:44,140 --> 01:35:41,969
name a yarn is something like that

2264
01:35:46,930 --> 01:35:44,150
there's he's a physicist I think from

2265
01:35:49,399 --> 01:35:46,940
South America or Mexico who would

2266
01:35:52,490 --> 01:35:49,409
propose such a thing could be done where

2267
01:35:55,580 --> 01:35:52,500
you're this the spaceship would bend the

2268
01:35:57,379 --> 01:35:55,590
space in front of it and sort of pull

2269
01:35:59,030 --> 01:35:57,389
itself along and then unbend the space

2270
01:36:02,180 --> 01:35:59,040
behind it and it would go at you know

2271
01:36:04,310 --> 01:36:02,190
incredible velocities and so on and even

2272
01:36:05,540 --> 01:36:04,320
he says that well he isn't sure this

2273
01:36:07,310 --> 01:36:05,550
could really be done and he kind of

2274
01:36:09,109 --> 01:36:07,320
thinks it couldn't but it's just the

2275
01:36:12,589 --> 01:36:09,119
theory also I mean the way you bend

2276
01:36:13,219 --> 01:36:12,599
space is with mass and you know the mass

2277
01:36:15,589 --> 01:36:13,229
of the

2278
01:36:16,969 --> 01:36:15,599
which is I don't know how many a million

2279
01:36:19,580 --> 01:36:16,979
times out of the earth or something like

2280
01:36:22,069 --> 01:36:19,590
that it only serves the bend space a

2281
01:36:23,989 --> 01:36:22,079
small amount in other words when we look

2282
01:36:26,390 --> 01:36:23,999
at a star during an eclipse of the Sun

2283
01:36:27,859 --> 01:36:26,400
and we see that star appears to be close

2284
01:36:31,239 --> 01:36:27,869
to the edge of the Sun we can see this

2285
01:36:34,100 --> 01:36:31,249
position is is move just a very small

2286
01:36:36,649 --> 01:36:34,110
amount just that something is difficult

2287
01:36:39,080 --> 01:36:36,659
to measure even telescopically because

2288
01:36:40,910 --> 01:36:39,090
of the warping of space of the Sun so

2289
01:36:43,310 --> 01:36:40,920
that's a tiny amount of warping of space

2290
01:36:44,810 --> 01:36:43,320
now suppose you wanted a huge huge

2291
01:36:46,959 --> 01:36:44,820
amount of warping a space you're going

2292
01:36:50,660 --> 01:36:46,969
to push yourself ahead it's some

2293
01:36:52,729 --> 01:36:50,670
ridiculous velocity engage walk you're

2294
01:36:54,109 --> 01:36:52,739
gonna get were you gonna get a mess are

2295
01:36:55,819 --> 01:36:54,119
you what do you need a million solar

2296
01:36:58,520 --> 01:36:55,829
masses I mean how are you gonna do this

2297
01:37:00,049 --> 01:36:58,530
I must apologize here Robert though when

2298
01:37:01,310 --> 01:37:00,059
I was asking questions before I thought

2299
01:37:04,040 --> 01:37:01,320
they were from mica they were from

2300
01:37:06,529 --> 01:37:04,050
actually from Blowfish now mica does

2301
01:37:10,370 --> 01:37:06,539
have some questions on here and one of

2302
01:37:12,259 --> 01:37:10,380
them is the suggestion that ball

2303
01:37:15,350 --> 01:37:12,269
lightning plasmas and little understood

2304
01:37:17,299 --> 01:37:15,360
natural phenomenon are solutions to

2305
01:37:22,549 --> 01:37:17,309
purported UFO reports as fill class

2306
01:37:24,739 --> 01:37:22,559
early on you know posited but he's

2307
01:37:26,689 --> 01:37:24,749
wondering I don't that constitutes only

2308
01:37:28,520 --> 01:37:26,699
using a speculative theory to answer a

2309
01:37:31,430 --> 01:37:28,530
quote-unquote another speculative theory

2310
01:37:33,439 --> 01:37:31,440
and if so is this logically unsound or

2311
01:37:35,629 --> 01:37:33,449
does it suggest that some speculation is

2312
01:37:39,680 --> 01:37:35,639
warranted in the U n UFO studies as

2313
01:37:42,169 --> 01:37:39,690
often class seemed to do no I I think I

2314
01:37:45,560 --> 01:37:42,179
would agree with Mikey here rather than

2315
01:37:48,199 --> 01:37:45,570
with glass and plasmas he as you know

2316
01:37:50,719 --> 01:37:48,209
class when he first started out looking

2317
01:37:53,719 --> 01:37:50,729
at UFO cases and based on a few of the

2318
01:37:56,330 --> 01:37:53,729
descriptions he thought that this could

2319
01:37:59,109 --> 01:37:56,340
have to do with plasma or ball lightning

2320
01:38:01,549 --> 01:37:59,119
or something caused by electric wires

2321
01:38:05,419 --> 01:38:01,559
that get corroded or

2322
01:38:09,169 --> 01:38:05,429
get the salt spray from the ocean and so

2323
01:38:11,750 --> 01:38:09,179
on and but again this is this is

2324
01:38:15,290 --> 01:38:11,760
speculative and I agree it's really is

2325
01:38:18,830 --> 01:38:15,300
it's using one speculative thing to do

2326
01:38:20,839 --> 01:38:18,840
answer another one I think that rather

2327
01:38:23,419 --> 01:38:20,849
than going down that road I would just

2328
01:38:25,669 --> 01:38:23,429
try to ask myself is there any evidence

2329
01:38:27,150 --> 01:38:25,679
other than just a witness who thinks

2330
01:38:29,190 --> 01:38:27,160
they saw something

2331
01:38:32,040 --> 01:38:29,200
the ordinary you know if they if the

2332
01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:32,050
witness can produce videos or perhaps

2333
01:38:36,750 --> 01:38:35,290
you know some sort of burn marks or

2334
01:38:38,520 --> 01:38:36,760
something where you find some kind of

2335
01:38:40,680 --> 01:38:38,530
consistency through this and you know we

2336
01:38:44,160 --> 01:38:40,690
could start to come up with something

2337
01:38:46,020 --> 01:38:44,170
solid about it but no I I don't think

2338
01:38:46,650 --> 01:38:46,030
that that's a good a good path to go

2339
01:38:50,790 --> 01:38:46,660
down

2340
01:38:54,210 --> 01:38:50,800
yeah I would agree as well it's it

2341
01:38:55,980 --> 01:38:54,220
doesn't make much sense to say one thing

2342
01:38:57,810 --> 01:38:55,990
is speculative and then propose

2343
01:39:01,080 --> 01:38:57,820
something speculative to possibly

2344
01:39:04,080 --> 01:39:01,090
explain that here's a question from SRL

2345
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:04,090
who's a longtime poster at forum dr.

2346
01:39:09,450 --> 01:39:07,570
Peric ascom and he was wondering if you

2347
01:39:11,250 --> 01:39:09,460
have heard of michael persinger and if

2348
01:39:14,130 --> 01:39:11,260
so what are your opinions concerning his

2349
01:39:16,440 --> 01:39:14,140
research relating to EMF fields and

2350
01:39:18,120 --> 01:39:16,450
influencing human consciousness and and

2351
01:39:21,180 --> 01:39:18,130
do you consider this research credible

2352
01:39:22,950 --> 01:39:21,190
yes I was almost going to get into that

2353
01:39:24,750 --> 01:39:22,960
and I was going to mention earthquake

2354
01:39:26,850 --> 01:39:24,760
lights while we're on the subject of

2355
01:39:28,530 --> 01:39:26,860
speculative stuff is that's one of

2356
01:39:31,260 --> 01:39:28,540
person curse things is that well

2357
01:39:33,570 --> 01:39:31,270
earthquake lights may explain UFOs

2358
01:39:35,940 --> 01:39:33,580
because of piezoelectric effects in the

2359
01:39:37,530 --> 01:39:35,950
rocks and things like this as far as it

2360
01:39:39,780 --> 01:39:37,540
pressing her has something he calls the

2361
01:39:41,010 --> 01:39:39,790
god helmet or not maybe he doesn't call

2362
01:39:43,560 --> 01:39:41,020
it that some people call it that where

2363
01:39:46,770 --> 01:39:43,570
you put this thing on and it gives you a

2364
01:39:49,560 --> 01:39:46,780
magnetic field around your head and that

2365
01:39:51,960 --> 01:39:49,570
supposedly produces all these apparently

2366
01:39:54,710 --> 01:39:51,970
paranormal effects in fact as I

2367
01:39:58,890 --> 01:39:54,720
understand that that and years ago

2368
01:40:00,780 --> 01:39:58,900
Michael Shermer of skeptic magazine did

2369
01:40:02,520 --> 01:40:00,790
this thing with Persinger and reported

2370
01:40:05,250 --> 01:40:02,530
that you know he did feel these effects

2371
01:40:07,890 --> 01:40:05,260
but then later other people tried to

2372
01:40:11,930 --> 01:40:07,900
replicate them and could not it's also

2373
01:40:16,760 --> 01:40:11,940
pointed out when people are putting into

2374
01:40:20,010 --> 01:40:16,770
MRI machines that they are exposed to

2375
01:40:21,660 --> 01:40:20,020
electric fields magnetic fields far far

2376
01:40:23,970 --> 01:40:21,670
in excess of anything that's in the god

2377
01:40:25,440 --> 01:40:23,980
helmet and yet people are not reporting

2378
01:40:27,990 --> 01:40:25,450
you know paranormal events and

2379
01:40:31,890 --> 01:40:28,000
experiences as they're in these machines

2380
01:40:34,470 --> 01:40:31,900
so I think that some I I think it is not

2381
01:40:36,690 --> 01:40:34,480
that credible as far as you know trying

2382
01:40:38,130 --> 01:40:36,700
to to produce these effects directly in

2383
01:40:40,530 --> 01:40:38,140
a person like that

2384
01:40:42,900 --> 01:40:40,540
now the

2385
01:40:45,510 --> 01:40:42,910
and secondary stuff like for example

2386
01:40:47,340 --> 01:40:45,520
earthquake lights and I recently had

2387
01:40:49,650 --> 01:40:47,350
some arguments with some skeptics about

2388
01:40:51,390 --> 01:40:49,660
this earthquake lights are wonderful in

2389
01:40:52,950 --> 01:40:51,400
the sense that they can be anything you

2390
01:40:54,270 --> 01:40:52,960
want them to be they can be right there

2391
01:40:57,090 --> 01:40:54,280
on the ground they can be up in the sky

2392
01:40:59,400 --> 01:40:57,100
they can be any color and shape what's

2393
01:41:01,470 --> 01:40:59,410
even more remarkable is if they don't

2394
01:41:03,570 --> 01:41:01,480
seem to depend on the size of the

2395
01:41:06,270 --> 01:41:03,580
earthquake in other words up an

2396
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:06,280
earthquake that is very powerful as a

2397
01:41:10,560 --> 01:41:08,410
seven or eight magnitude might not

2398
01:41:12,780 --> 01:41:10,570
produce any earthquake light and then

2399
01:41:14,550 --> 01:41:12,790
you might have a magnitude four which

2400
01:41:17,400 --> 01:41:14,560
has only one ten-thousandth as much

2401
01:41:19,730 --> 01:41:17,410
energy as a magnitude 8 earthquake and

2402
01:41:22,410 --> 01:41:19,740
people will say well the magnitude 4

2403
01:41:25,470 --> 01:41:22,420
earthquake produced those lights in the

2404
01:41:27,210 --> 01:41:25,480
sky they were reported that it by itself

2405
01:41:28,770 --> 01:41:27,220
isn't logical you would expect that the

2406
01:41:31,980 --> 01:41:28,780
more energy released the more earthquake

2407
01:41:34,350 --> 01:41:31,990
lights and then they don't have to match

2408
01:41:36,390 --> 01:41:34,360
up in terms of space or location

2409
01:41:38,970 --> 01:41:36,400
I think person gurth was using like

2410
01:41:41,970 --> 01:41:38,980
magnitude 3 and for earthquakes that had

2411
01:41:46,620 --> 01:41:41,980
occurred several months earlier to prove

2412
01:41:47,970 --> 01:41:46,630
that to try to explain earthquake lights

2413
01:41:49,950 --> 01:41:47,980
that we're seeing you know months later

2414
01:41:53,280 --> 01:41:49,960
they say this is just too loosey-goosey

2415
01:41:57,920 --> 01:41:53,290
if it isn't convincing if somebody could

2416
01:42:02,310 --> 01:41:57,930
come up with some halfway with you know

2417
01:42:04,230 --> 01:42:02,320
rigorous you know an explanation and

2418
01:42:05,730 --> 01:42:04,240
theory about when and where you're going

2419
01:42:07,440 --> 01:42:05,740
to see earthquake lights and if it could

2420
01:42:09,630 --> 01:42:07,450
be tested then you know that I that I

2421
01:42:12,030 --> 01:42:09,640
could believe it but what I've seen so

2422
01:42:14,430 --> 01:42:12,040
far and when the claims based on people

2423
01:42:18,090 --> 01:42:14,440
like Persinger and others John Dearing I

2424
01:42:19,890 --> 01:42:18,100
think his name is Paul Devereaux yeah

2425
01:42:21,630 --> 01:42:19,900
and these claims have been going around

2426
01:42:23,520 --> 01:42:21,640
for at least twenty years and again with

2427
01:42:25,830 --> 01:42:23,530
something like that it's unusual and

2428
01:42:28,050 --> 01:42:25,840
interesting comes up and if there's an

2429
01:42:30,150 --> 01:42:28,060
it doesn't go anywhere in 20 years or

2430
01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:30,160
more then that kind of says there really

2431
01:42:35,400 --> 01:42:33,130
isn't anywhere for it to go mmm well how

2432
01:42:37,710 --> 01:42:35,410
about has Dahlan all that places well

2433
01:42:42,450 --> 01:42:37,720
again I haven't researched that

2434
01:42:44,580 --> 01:42:42,460
primarily myself or to a lot of I can't

2435
01:42:46,530 --> 01:42:44,590
speak to the details of it what I've

2436
01:42:48,060 --> 01:42:46,540
heard is pretty much the same as a lot

2437
01:42:50,310 --> 01:42:48,070
of these things and Marfa lights and

2438
01:42:52,260 --> 01:42:50,320
whatever also a few of them seem to be

2439
01:42:54,300 --> 01:42:52,270
hoaxes that you know somebody said they

2440
01:42:55,710 --> 01:42:54,310
saw you know like a red dot on

2441
01:42:58,350 --> 01:42:55,720
ground that appeared to be bouncing

2442
01:42:59,790 --> 01:42:58,360
around and I think if somebody was

2443
01:43:02,640 --> 01:42:59,800
playing games with a little you know

2444
01:43:05,160 --> 01:43:02,650
laser rough and and it's not beyond yeah

2445
01:43:06,990 --> 01:43:05,170
he a lot of people like to play little

2446
01:43:09,810 --> 01:43:07,000
jokes and tricks that wouldn't surprise

2447
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:09,820
me but III can't say a lot about it but

2448
01:43:14,040 --> 01:43:11,530
I think it's it's pretty much the same

2449
01:43:15,840 --> 01:43:14,050
as earthquake lights and the Marfa

2450
01:43:18,960 --> 01:43:15,850
lights and the Brown Mountain lights and

2451
01:43:20,790 --> 01:43:18,970
people see lights and again there's no

2452
01:43:21,900 --> 01:43:20,800
real consistency to what they're seeing

2453
01:43:24,270 --> 01:43:21,910
and how they're seeing it and when

2454
01:43:26,130 --> 01:43:24,280
they're seeing it so you know until

2455
01:43:28,560 --> 01:43:26,140
somebody could try to nail it down

2456
01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:28,570
better than that I'm not gonna I'm not

2457
01:43:32,850 --> 01:43:30,610
very convinced yeah it's like trying to

2458
01:43:35,310 --> 01:43:32,860
nail jello to the wall that's pretty

2459
01:43:36,840 --> 01:43:35,320
much it so in general then what do you

2460
01:43:39,390 --> 01:43:36,850
think the Brown Mountain lights are um

2461
01:43:43,620 --> 01:43:39,400
the Brown Mountain lights as I recall

2462
01:43:45,690 --> 01:43:43,630
although it's in the latest paper by I

2463
01:43:46,980 --> 01:43:45,700
forget who the authors are about the

2464
01:43:49,770 --> 01:43:46,990
earthquake lights the one that was just

2465
01:43:51,630 --> 01:43:49,780
released I think January of this year or

2466
01:43:53,850 --> 01:43:51,640
at least it was was first written about

2467
01:43:55,260 --> 01:43:53,860
January of this year they gave you the

2468
01:43:56,610 --> 01:43:55,270
Brown Mountain lights as being the

2469
01:43:58,500 --> 01:43:56,620
earthquake lights because there was a

2470
01:44:00,570 --> 01:43:58,510
magnitude 3 earthquakes there at some

2471
01:44:02,160 --> 01:44:00,580
point in time and my understanding is

2472
01:44:04,560 --> 01:44:02,170
that they are they're basically lights

2473
01:44:07,770 --> 01:44:04,570
they're either automobile or locomotive

2474
01:44:10,740 --> 01:44:07,780
lights seen in a distance but they've

2475
01:44:12,450 --> 01:44:10,750
been reported allegedly since the early

2476
01:44:15,210 --> 01:44:12,460
to middle 1800s correct me if I'm wrong

2477
01:44:16,650 --> 01:44:15,220
I I'm not sure exactly how far back it

2478
01:44:18,120 --> 01:44:16,660
goes but I think it does go back to the

2479
01:44:21,660 --> 01:44:18,130
19th century and there were indeed

2480
01:44:24,500 --> 01:44:21,670
locomotives in the 19th century so at

2481
01:44:27,120 --> 01:44:24,510
least that's how it's supposed to be

2482
01:44:31,560 --> 01:44:27,130
there were some law some fairly detailed

2483
01:44:33,630 --> 01:44:31,570
reports that were made there was the US

2484
01:44:38,100 --> 01:44:33,640
Geological Survey I forget the guys name

2485
01:44:42,240 --> 01:44:38,110
he did a paper which is which is still

2486
01:44:45,380 --> 01:44:42,250
available and basically it was it was

2487
01:44:47,340 --> 01:44:45,390
what I'm saying the automobile and

2488
01:44:49,860 --> 01:44:47,350
locomotive lights and this was back like

2489
01:44:52,410 --> 01:44:49,870
around you know 1919 or something and I

2490
01:44:54,690 --> 01:44:52,420
hope no class has a chapter one of his

2491
01:44:56,400 --> 01:44:54,700
books I think it was UFOs explained

2492
01:44:59,400 --> 01:44:56,410
about this in which he goes into all

2493
01:45:01,680 --> 01:44:59,410
this in considerable detail you know I

2494
01:45:03,180 --> 01:45:01,690
remember something else that I saw in

2495
01:45:06,870 --> 01:45:03,190
terms of lights for at least I checked

2496
01:45:07,740 --> 01:45:06,880
out called the Somerville light in South

2497
01:45:09,810 --> 01:45:07,750
Carolina

2498
01:45:12,480 --> 01:45:09,820
20 minutes from Charleston there was

2499
01:45:13,830 --> 01:45:12,490
supposedly the head or the lantern

2500
01:45:16,200 --> 01:45:13,840
carried by a ghost

2501
01:45:18,540 --> 01:45:16,210
there were some old radio old railroad

2502
01:45:20,520 --> 01:45:18,550
tracks I didn't see it we have Robert

2503
01:45:27,960 --> 01:45:20,530
Schafer joining gene and Kris you're in

2504
01:45:30,240 --> 01:45:27,970
the para cast unseen now calm proud

2505
01:45:32,310 --> 01:45:30,250
sponsor of GCS unseen now some

2506
01:45:36,750 --> 01:45:32,320
paralleled encryption tools keep your

2507
01:45:38,520 --> 01:45:36,760
communication secure G C n how many good

2508
01:45:40,290 --> 01:45:38,530
people procrastinate when was the last

2509
01:45:41,790 --> 01:45:40,300
time you updated your last will and

2510
01:45:43,500 --> 01:45:41,800
testament your living will and your

2511
01:45:45,270 --> 01:45:43,510
healthcare power of attorney if you

2512
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:45,280
could get these documents included with

2513
01:45:48,720 --> 01:45:46,810
your Legal Shield membership for no

2514
01:45:50,010 --> 01:45:48,730
additional charge wouldn't it just make

2515
01:45:52,380 --> 01:45:50,020
sense to have the peace of mind of

2516
01:45:54,330 --> 01:45:52,390
owning a Legal Shield membership wearing

2517
01:45:57,180 --> 01:45:54,340
less and live more with LS protection

2518
01:45:59,580 --> 01:45:57,190
calm that's LS protection calm or call

2519
01:46:02,250 --> 01:45:59,590
eight five five three four zero safe

2520
01:46:04,590 --> 01:46:02,260
that's 855 three four zero seven two

2521
01:46:05,040 --> 01:46:04,600
eight three results will vary from case

2522
01:46:07,590 --> 01:46:05,050
to case

2523
01:46:09,150 --> 01:46:07,600
hi this is Ted Anderson have you ever

2524
01:46:10,680 --> 01:46:09,160
wondered why banks stockbrokers

2525
01:46:12,630 --> 01:46:10,690
investment advisors won't talk about

2526
01:46:14,520 --> 01:46:12,640
gold IRAs they've been available since

2527
01:46:16,290 --> 01:46:14,530
nineteen eighty six yet the financial

2528
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:16,300
industry won't recognize the value of

2529
01:46:19,980 --> 01:46:18,010
gold for your retirement goal has

2530
01:46:21,930 --> 01:46:19,990
outperformed paper investments yet no

2531
01:46:24,900 --> 01:46:21,940
word about IRAs if you would like to

2532
01:46:26,640 --> 01:46:24,910
have gold for your retirement call 866

2533
01:46:28,350 --> 01:46:26,650
two two three seven don't get left

2534
01:46:31,530 --> 01:46:28,360
behind by rising inflation and low

2535
01:47:20,400 --> 01:46:31,540
returns call 866 two to thirty seven

2536
01:47:24,810 --> 01:47:22,080
how it works for you will let you keep

2537
01:47:27,120 --> 01:47:24,820
it for free call 1-800 two five six

2538
01:47:28,980 --> 01:47:27,130
seven seven nine five that's one eight

2539
01:47:32,730 --> 01:47:28,990
hundred two five six seven seven nine

2540
01:47:34,980 --> 01:47:32,740
five call now call 1-800 - five six

2541
01:47:37,020 --> 01:47:34,990
seven seven nine five that's one eight

2542
01:47:40,160 --> 01:47:37,030
hundred two five six seven seven nine

2543
01:47:48,100 --> 01:47:44,370
[Applause]

2544
01:47:52,410 --> 01:47:48,110
welcome back into the para cast the gold

2545
01:48:01,120 --> 01:47:52,420
standard of paranormal radio and now

2546
01:48:02,439 --> 01:48:01,130
here's Jane Steinberg of course I'm some

2547
01:48:06,010 --> 01:48:02,449
people think I'm so old I was actually

2548
01:48:08,049 --> 01:48:06,020
around when the railroad employee was

2549
01:48:09,339 --> 01:48:08,059
carrying that lantern you know well

2550
01:48:11,200 --> 01:48:09,349
here's one for you Robert we have a

2551
01:48:12,850 --> 01:48:11,210
question about your background have you

2552
01:48:15,220 --> 01:48:12,860
ever had a government job and if so what

2553
01:48:19,750 --> 01:48:15,230
what did you do with the government they

2554
01:48:21,819 --> 01:48:19,760
think I must be can I hear that quite

2555
01:48:25,709 --> 01:48:21,829
often let's just have a reality check

2556
01:48:28,000 --> 01:48:25,719
here understand that our guest moderator

2557
01:48:30,370 --> 01:48:28,010
co-host from last week's episode

2558
01:48:32,890 --> 01:48:30,380
Godsmack I did work with the British

2559
01:48:35,620 --> 01:48:32,900
Navy and intelligence work and we didn't

2560
01:48:38,530 --> 01:48:35,630
have any suspicions of him so with that

2561
01:48:40,270 --> 01:48:38,540
in mind Robert you may continue yeah no

2562
01:48:41,470 --> 01:48:40,280
I've never worked directly for the

2563
01:48:43,299 --> 01:48:41,480
government I haven't worked on some

2564
01:48:45,899 --> 01:48:43,309
government contract in computer

2565
01:48:48,819 --> 01:48:45,909
companies some of them had some military

2566
01:48:51,850 --> 01:48:48,829
applications but I've never had anything

2567
01:48:54,549 --> 01:48:51,860
to do with anything vaguely involving

2568
01:48:56,680 --> 01:48:54,559
UFOs or or anything like that

2569
01:48:58,450 --> 01:48:56,690
well that's that's good to know and even

2570
01:49:00,609 --> 01:48:58,460
if you did you'd have to kill us before

2571
01:49:03,220 --> 01:49:00,619
you tell us right after you told us oh

2572
01:49:07,240 --> 01:49:03,230
we we heard that he has to get in line

2573
01:49:09,850 --> 01:49:07,250
yeah although we should point out that

2574
01:49:13,060 --> 01:49:09,860
you know James Oberg and James McGee hey

2575
01:49:15,700 --> 01:49:13,070
both are retired Air Force officers who

2576
01:49:19,540 --> 01:49:15,710
have worked in intelligence they say

2577
01:49:21,700 --> 01:49:19,550
they had nothing to do with UFOs just uh

2578
01:49:23,500 --> 01:49:21,710
you know some little things like space

2579
01:49:28,810 --> 01:49:23,510
program and nuclear weapons and things

2580
01:49:31,270 --> 01:49:28,820
like that but not UFOs but yeah yeah

2581
01:49:33,459 --> 01:49:31,280
again maybe they're they're just allowed

2582
01:49:35,890 --> 01:49:33,469
to say anything about it well one thing

2583
01:49:38,290 --> 01:49:35,900
that's always been a curious thing for

2584
01:49:39,790 --> 01:49:38,300
me having done quite a bit of

2585
01:49:41,319 --> 01:49:39,800
investigative work in the San Luis

2586
01:49:43,810 --> 01:49:41,329
Valley which is in South Central

2587
01:49:47,169 --> 01:49:43,820
Colorado and it's on the western edge of

2588
01:49:49,209 --> 01:49:47,179
the La Veta Lowell 'evil military flight

2589
01:49:52,330 --> 01:49:49,219
operations area and training ground and

2590
01:49:54,220 --> 01:49:52,340
I must say that I've seen the Air Force

2591
01:49:56,500 --> 01:49:54,230
tried out conventional craft and light

2592
01:49:58,900 --> 01:49:56,510
them up like Christmas trees

2593
01:50:00,760 --> 01:49:58,910
for no apparent reason then the

2594
01:50:03,340 --> 01:50:00,770
assumption would be to see if people

2595
01:50:05,680 --> 01:50:03,350
report them as UFOs now what do you

2596
01:50:09,630 --> 01:50:05,690
think about the government using the UFO

2597
01:50:12,850 --> 01:50:09,640
subject to create possible of

2598
01:50:15,970 --> 01:50:12,860
psychological weapons programs or or

2599
01:50:18,160 --> 01:50:15,980
some sort of some sort of manipulation

2600
01:50:20,080 --> 01:50:18,170
of an unsuspecting public do you believe

2601
01:50:22,300 --> 01:50:20,090
that this type of activity occurs and if

2602
01:50:24,190 --> 01:50:22,310
so what are your thoughts about it no I

2603
01:50:26,110 --> 01:50:24,200
don't think it occurs again I can't

2604
01:50:29,980 --> 01:50:26,120
prove that it doesn't occur let me just

2605
01:50:33,700 --> 01:50:29,990
say that we're talking about the San

2606
01:50:37,240 --> 01:50:33,710
Luis Valley here in Colorado I went at

2607
01:50:40,420 --> 01:50:37,250
the UFO Watchtower and stayed there one

2608
01:50:43,750 --> 01:50:40,430
night and yeah it's an interesting place

2609
01:50:45,430 --> 01:50:43,760
out there when you look at the lights in

2610
01:50:48,760 --> 01:50:45,440
the distance that Valley floor is

2611
01:50:50,650 --> 01:50:48,770
extremely flat and though you see lights

2612
01:50:52,210 --> 01:50:50,660
in the distance and they I guess if you

2613
01:50:54,310 --> 01:50:52,220
go in there with the mindset that they

2614
01:50:56,530 --> 01:50:54,320
looked spooky you can convince yourself

2615
01:50:58,390 --> 01:50:56,540
that they're spooky but again I think

2616
01:51:01,120 --> 01:50:58,400
it's just the temperature inversions and

2617
01:51:02,710 --> 01:51:01,130
those sorts of things most of the

2618
01:51:04,450 --> 01:51:02,720
longtime residents are very aware of

2619
01:51:06,850 --> 01:51:04,460
those things it's only the tourists

2620
01:51:10,570 --> 01:51:06,860
coming in there with with sparkles in

2621
01:51:12,310 --> 01:51:10,580
their eyes want to have an unusual

2622
01:51:14,110 --> 01:51:12,320
experience and believe me I I think the

2623
01:51:15,940 --> 01:51:14,120
watchtower is set at a good spot but I

2624
01:51:17,530 --> 01:51:15,950
think that the people that tend to go

2625
01:51:18,820 --> 01:51:17,540
there I have already made up there in

2626
01:51:21,640 --> 01:51:18,830
their minds that they they're going to

2627
01:51:24,180 --> 01:51:21,650
have a high strange experience which

2628
01:51:27,640 --> 01:51:24,190
which is supported by the psychology of

2629
01:51:29,530 --> 01:51:27,650
wannabe ISM as I would I guess call it

2630
01:51:31,600 --> 01:51:29,540
but the reason why I asked that prior

2631
01:51:34,330 --> 01:51:31,610
question was a simple one I was

2632
01:51:35,890 --> 01:51:34,340
travelling late at night on highway 17

2633
01:51:38,770 --> 01:51:35,900
which is the road that that Watchtower

2634
01:51:40,570 --> 01:51:38,780
is located off of I saw a row of

2635
01:51:42,640 --> 01:51:40,580
brilliant blinking lights there were

2636
01:51:45,130 --> 01:51:42,650
probably a couple of dozen of them

2637
01:51:47,260 --> 01:51:45,140
arrayed in a straight line flying across

2638
01:51:48,900 --> 01:51:47,270
from north to south

2639
01:51:51,790 --> 01:51:48,910
I immediately slammed on my brakes

2640
01:51:56,040 --> 01:51:51,800
grabbed my night-vision binoculars and

2641
01:51:58,630 --> 01:51:56,050
stopped was able to ascertain I think

2642
01:52:02,110 --> 01:51:58,640
fairly accurately that they were within

2643
01:52:05,320 --> 01:52:02,120
five miles from me and I was able to see

2644
01:52:07,870 --> 01:52:05,330
and hear the sound of cargo planes

2645
01:52:10,060 --> 01:52:07,880
flying in formation and it appeared that

2646
01:52:10,330 --> 01:52:10,070
the lights had been sequenced along the

2647
01:52:13,660 --> 01:52:10,340
lead

2648
01:52:15,129 --> 01:52:13,670
edge of all three airplanes a sequence

2649
01:52:17,339 --> 01:52:15,139
in such a way that they were perfectly

2650
01:52:19,660 --> 01:52:17,349
timed to make it look like an object

2651
01:52:22,060 --> 01:52:19,670
several hundred feet across

2652
01:52:24,220 --> 01:52:22,070
flying sequence in the sense like five

2653
01:52:26,020 --> 01:52:24,230
four three two one one two three four

2654
01:52:28,419 --> 01:52:26,030
five that sort of sequence all the way

2655
01:52:30,490 --> 01:52:28,429
from from there were three airplanes

2656
01:52:34,330 --> 01:52:30,500
flying wing tip to wing tip and it would

2657
01:52:36,459 --> 01:52:34,340
go from the extreme left planes extreme

2658
01:52:38,439 --> 01:52:36,469
left wing tip all the way across the

2659
01:52:41,290 --> 01:52:38,449
leading edge of all three planes to the

2660
01:52:44,399 --> 01:52:41,300
extreme right wing on the right plane

2661
01:52:46,479 --> 01:52:44,409
and then do that again like a row of

2662
01:52:49,089 --> 01:52:46,489
brilliantly flashing lights that we were

2663
01:52:52,089 --> 01:52:49,099
flashing in sequence yeah I think what

2664
01:52:54,010 --> 01:52:52,099
you're describing may be a night a

2665
01:52:57,430 --> 01:52:54,020
training mission for night refuelling

2666
01:53:00,339 --> 01:52:57,440
that they have these sequenced lights

2667
01:53:03,129 --> 01:53:00,349
that is supposed to help the pilot to

2668
01:53:06,100 --> 01:53:03,139
line up with the you know to get the

2669
01:53:08,800 --> 01:53:06,110
fuel tank into the boom that's coming

2670
01:53:10,390 --> 01:53:08,810
down from the other plane yeah but it

2671
01:53:12,459 --> 01:53:10,400
was on the leading edge not the trailing

2672
01:53:14,560 --> 01:53:12,469
edge of the plus it was quite low

2673
01:53:19,089 --> 01:53:14,570
altitude I must say it was very very low

2674
01:53:21,370 --> 01:53:19,099
altitude and they were not in a MTR they

2675
01:53:22,450 --> 01:53:21,380
were outside of the operations area they

2676
01:53:24,550 --> 01:53:22,460
were flying down the center of the

2677
01:53:27,669 --> 01:53:24,560
valley which is not considered part of

2678
01:53:30,100 --> 01:53:27,679
the military flight arrangement there it

2679
01:53:33,640 --> 01:53:30,110
just seemed very strange to me and if I

2680
01:53:35,410 --> 01:53:33,650
had been any further away and not been

2681
01:53:37,300 --> 01:53:35,420
able to hear the engines and not be able

2682
01:53:41,229 --> 01:53:37,310
to see these things under night-vision I

2683
01:53:43,149 --> 01:53:41,239
would have seen a UFO yeah but the well

2684
01:53:46,060 --> 01:53:43,159
the important thing is you did recognize

2685
01:53:49,270 --> 01:53:46,070
that they were airplanes yes we can

2686
01:53:51,339 --> 01:53:49,280
agree that the airplanes were they were

2687
01:53:53,290 --> 01:53:51,349
from this planet and then the only

2688
01:53:56,649 --> 01:53:53,300
question is really why were they doing

2689
01:54:00,930 --> 01:53:56,659
this funny thing and I don't know that I

2690
01:54:03,370 --> 01:54:00,940
know that James McGaha has had more

2691
01:54:05,169 --> 01:54:03,380
experience in this sort of thing and and

2692
01:54:06,640 --> 01:54:05,179
those are better because of the time he

2693
01:54:08,589 --> 01:54:06,650
was in the Air Force and he was a pilot

2694
01:54:10,839 --> 01:54:08,599
for many years and so he has talked I

2695
01:54:13,089 --> 01:54:10,849
know he's talked about these military

2696
01:54:14,950 --> 01:54:13,099
refueling operations that are you know

2697
01:54:16,899 --> 01:54:14,960
they have to practice these things so I

2698
01:54:19,120 --> 01:54:16,909
can't say that as a certainty but I

2699
01:54:21,700 --> 01:54:19,130
think we can both agree that these were

2700
01:54:23,350 --> 01:54:21,710
airplanes now getting back to what you

2701
01:54:24,250 --> 01:54:23,360
said about the night vision let me

2702
01:54:25,870 --> 01:54:24,260
suggest this

2703
01:54:28,920 --> 01:54:25,880
I know that a lot of people are using

2704
01:54:31,990 --> 01:54:28,930
these night-vision devices that try to

2705
01:54:35,860 --> 01:54:32,000
see UFOs or to try to see more details

2706
01:54:37,510 --> 01:54:35,870
and things that some astronomers don't

2707
01:54:39,880 --> 01:54:37,520
use them amateur and professional

2708
01:54:42,490 --> 01:54:39,890
astronomers will use just an ordinary

2709
01:54:46,330 --> 01:54:42,500
binocular instead if you really want to

2710
01:54:49,150 --> 01:54:46,340
see good details get yourself a good

2711
01:54:51,730 --> 01:54:49,160
quality pair of optical binoculars

2712
01:54:54,210 --> 01:54:51,740
rather they do I I have a very good pair

2713
01:54:57,010 --> 01:54:54,220
that are actually designed for for naval

2714
01:54:58,870 --> 01:54:57,020
observers right that's what you want to

2715
01:55:02,020 --> 01:54:58,880
use because the night vision thing what

2716
01:55:03,760 --> 01:55:02,030
it does is it trades sensitivity for

2717
01:55:06,940 --> 01:55:03,770
resolution in other words it boosts

2718
01:55:09,850 --> 01:55:06,950
activity asleep very faint objects but

2719
01:55:12,190 --> 01:55:09,860
you lose details because of the way they

2720
01:55:14,110 --> 01:55:12,200
operate you'll see often just a big

2721
01:55:15,790 --> 01:55:14,120
white blur or blob and often it'll

2722
01:55:16,960 --> 01:55:15,800
appear to be changing size and whatever

2723
01:55:18,760 --> 01:55:16,970
it's not changing I'm correct correct

2724
01:55:21,250 --> 01:55:18,770
yeah it's it's a toolbox we all have our

2725
01:55:23,830 --> 01:55:21,260
goggles and and we need to know how to

2726
01:55:25,180 --> 01:55:23,840
properly utilize them and I agree saying

2727
01:55:27,310 --> 01:55:25,190
that from the standpoint of somebody who

2728
01:55:30,670 --> 01:55:27,320
wants to identify an object or a light

2729
01:55:32,800 --> 01:55:30,680
scene in the sky I don't see a night

2730
01:55:35,230 --> 01:55:32,810
vision nook you'll find if you go to any

2731
01:55:37,750 --> 01:55:35,240
star party if you go to any place where

2732
01:55:39,790 --> 01:55:37,760
you know advanced amateur astronomers

2733
01:55:41,800 --> 01:55:39,800
and observers are gathered nobody is

2734
01:55:44,080 --> 01:55:41,810
using those things well they use them on

2735
01:55:46,000 --> 01:55:44,090
TV shows of course yeah if they look

2736
01:55:48,910 --> 01:55:46,010
neat on TV shows that's what they're for

2737
01:55:51,280 --> 01:55:48,920
I want to ask you briefly here because

2738
01:55:53,470 --> 01:55:51,290
we opened a very large thread in our

2739
01:55:57,040 --> 01:55:53,480
forums as a result of the initial

2740
01:55:59,620 --> 01:55:57,050
reviews of this hangar one TV show which

2741
01:56:02,980 --> 01:55:59,630
apparently is sponsored or otherwise

2742
01:56:06,070 --> 01:56:02,990
affiliated with MUFON yes right now

2743
01:56:09,040 --> 01:56:06,080
that's kind of typical though Robert of

2744
01:56:11,590 --> 01:56:09,050
TV shows in general anything people I

2745
01:56:14,350 --> 01:56:11,600
think who are interested in UFOs except

2746
01:56:16,780 --> 01:56:14,360
that there are some sightings that are

2747
01:56:19,240 --> 01:56:16,790
unexplained might have an ET or other

2748
01:56:21,190 --> 01:56:19,250
unknown explanation they don't like

2749
01:56:24,670 --> 01:56:21,200
those shows either but this had to be

2750
01:56:26,530 --> 01:56:24,680
one of the worst right yeah funny every

2751
01:56:28,470 --> 01:56:26,540
time the last couple years when

2752
01:56:32,170 --> 01:56:28,480
something like this came along with when

2753
01:56:33,640 --> 01:56:32,180
chasing UFOs first came along with two

2754
01:56:36,820 --> 01:56:33,650
years ago or three years ago whatever it

2755
01:56:37,959 --> 01:56:36,830
was I wrote and and I know a lot of

2756
01:56:39,310 --> 01:56:37,969
people said is

2757
01:56:41,759 --> 01:56:39,320
the worst this is the worst we've ever

2758
01:56:44,799 --> 01:56:41,769
seen as far as you know just a trashy

2759
01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:44,809
sensationalist UFO show draw

2760
01:56:47,830 --> 01:56:46,010
overdramatizing

2761
01:56:49,839 --> 01:56:47,840
oh no there's something coming no

2762
01:56:52,000 --> 01:56:49,849
there's a there's a leopard coming let's

2763
01:56:53,709 --> 01:56:52,010
jump back in the car just as they see an

2764
01:56:54,430 --> 01:56:53,719
object in the sky oh no here comes a

2765
01:56:57,669 --> 01:56:54,440
wild animal

2766
01:56:59,589 --> 01:56:57,679
let's run but that record as it were for

2767
01:57:02,229 --> 01:56:59,599
badness didn't stay very long then along

2768
01:57:05,950 --> 01:57:02,239
came this thing earlier this year I

2769
01:57:07,330 --> 01:57:05,960
started out at Discovery Canada and what

2770
01:57:08,859 --> 01:57:07,340
were they calling him encounters or

2771
01:57:12,879 --> 01:57:08,869
something like that and then that was

2772
01:57:14,919 --> 01:57:12,889
even worse than chasing UFOs and then

2773
01:57:20,080 --> 01:57:14,929
that appeared a couple months later on a

2774
01:57:22,239 --> 01:57:20,090
u.s. TV then we said that that it's even

2775
01:57:25,540 --> 01:57:22,249
worse than chasing UFOs then along comes

2776
01:57:27,819 --> 01:57:25,550
hangar 1 let's get the review of hangar

2777
01:57:29,799 --> 01:57:27,829
1 our next segment so we have Robert

2778
01:57:37,810 --> 01:57:29,809
Schafer with Jean and Chris you're in

2779
01:57:40,479 --> 01:57:37,820
the Barrett cast neighbors are you tired

2780
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of dealing with a slow web hosting

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2800
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been more important certainly not in my

2801
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22 years in the industry the dollar has

2802
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lost over 90% of its value in the last

2803
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60 years

2804
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no fiat currency has ever survived the

2805
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government printing presses ours is not

2806
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immune the time is now to be proactive

2807
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1-866 to 237 extension 1 1 6 anything

2808
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2809
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2810
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2811
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2812
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2815
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2826
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hello its Tom Shean up from the top

2827
02:00:44,680 --> 02:00:42,470
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2830
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their home either part-time or full-time

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communication network we've organized a

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team to fight back about people not

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02:01:01,900 --> 02:00:59,570
having money time for health and we need

2835
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your help what we want you to do is if

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02:01:06,940 --> 02:01:04,220
you've got an interest in building an

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organization to fight back against

2838
02:01:11,770 --> 02:01:09,500
people taking our money taking our time

2839
02:01:13,900 --> 02:01:11,780
and taking our health we want to talk to

2840
02:01:19,960 --> 02:01:13,910
you all you need to do is call this

2841
02:01:25,720 --> 02:01:19,970
number 855 308 8 3 2 6 again

2842
02:01:28,120 --> 02:01:25,730
all you want to do is call 855 308 8 3 2

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02:01:30,520 --> 02:01:28,130
6 you can make a tremendous amount of

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02:01:39,550 --> 02:01:30,530
money and end up biting for a great

2845
02:01:41,830 --> 02:01:39,560
cause please call us right now we'd like

2846
02:01:44,440 --> 02:01:41,840
to hear from you if you have a comment

2847
02:01:48,310 --> 02:01:44,450
or question about the para cast sent it

2848
02:01:51,310 --> 02:01:48,320
to news at the para cast com that's news

2849
02:01:53,260 --> 02:01:51,320
at the para cast dot-com and don't

2850
02:01:56,350 --> 02:01:53,270
forget to visit our famous para cast

2851
02:01:58,970 --> 02:01:56,360
community forums at forum dot the para

2852
02:02:01,950 --> 02:01:58,980
cast dot-com

2853
02:02:04,410 --> 02:02:01,960
okay now understand here let's just be

2854
02:02:06,930 --> 02:02:04,420
honest about it Robert Schaffer two of

2855
02:02:09,450 --> 02:02:06,940
the co-hosts of chasing UFOs also said

2856
02:02:12,450 --> 02:02:09,460
was a bad program yes which is pretty

2857
02:02:15,419 --> 02:02:12,460
remarkable for that okay so we've got

2858
02:02:18,060 --> 02:02:15,429
two bad shows and now three's a crowd

2859
02:02:20,459 --> 02:02:18,070
because hangar 1 premieres you wrote a

2860
02:02:23,129 --> 02:02:20,469
review of it yeah Schaffer I only

2861
02:02:25,350 --> 02:02:23,139
watched the first episode I don't have

2862
02:02:27,149 --> 02:02:25,360
that cable channel but it was so bad you

2863
02:02:29,279 --> 02:02:27,159
could see everything you need to see

2864
02:02:33,629 --> 02:02:29,289
there other people have written about

2865
02:02:35,700 --> 02:02:33,639
the you know later episodes apparently

2866
02:02:38,609 --> 02:02:35,710
they've well and they're giving us stuff

2867
02:02:40,859 --> 02:02:38,619
like Dwight Eisenhower met with aliens

2868
02:02:43,620 --> 02:02:40,869
at Edwards Air Force Base you know those

2869
02:02:46,470 --> 02:02:43,630
old chestnuts that have been around for

2870
02:02:49,859 --> 02:02:46,480
so long without any proof they appear to

2871
02:02:52,319 --> 02:02:49,869
even have made documents up make them

2872
02:02:54,149 --> 02:02:52,329
appear to be government documents about

2873
02:02:55,979 --> 02:02:54,159
UFOs when in fact they're quotes from

2874
02:02:57,899 --> 02:02:55,989
books by Stanton Friedman or something

2875
02:03:00,629 --> 02:02:57,909
that you know made up to look like a

2876
02:03:03,000 --> 02:03:00,639
government document it's it's really

2877
02:03:05,700 --> 02:03:03,010
pretty bad and from upand to put its

2878
02:03:08,640 --> 02:03:05,710
name on that it basically means that the

2879
02:03:11,430 --> 02:03:08,650
MUFON is lost all credibility as far as

2880
02:03:13,379 --> 02:03:11,440
trying to be a scientific organization

2881
02:03:15,510 --> 02:03:13,389
they claim to be following a scientific

2882
02:03:17,700 --> 02:03:15,520
method but you'd never know it from this

2883
02:03:21,600 --> 02:03:17,710
sort of thing who's gonna be the next

2884
02:03:23,790 --> 02:03:21,610
even worse UFO show it's gonna be tough

2885
02:03:25,649 --> 02:03:23,800
to beat that one does anyone know if

2886
02:03:27,870 --> 02:03:25,659
that shows getting any ratings has it

2887
02:03:28,229 --> 02:03:27,880
been renewed what's the status I don't

2888
02:03:29,790 --> 02:03:28,239
know

2889
02:03:31,979 --> 02:03:29,800
I would imagine they're getting pretty

2890
02:03:32,189 --> 02:03:31,989
good ratings but I don't know that for

2891
02:03:34,740 --> 02:03:32,199
sure

2892
02:03:36,240 --> 02:03:34,750
well the true belieber crowd is I mean

2893
02:03:37,919 --> 02:03:36,250
they're jealous slipping that up like

2894
02:03:42,510 --> 02:03:37,929
there's no tomorrow I'm sure

2895
02:03:44,970 --> 02:03:42,520
jell-o slurping must be very old crowd

2896
02:03:47,910 --> 02:03:44,980
then well it's way beyond cool a drink

2897
02:03:51,330 --> 02:03:47,920
and it's now jello slurping yeah kind of

2898
02:03:55,319 --> 02:03:51,340
tickles my innards right I'm not gonna

2899
02:03:56,790 --> 02:03:55,329
touch that one gene thank you we have

2900
02:04:00,060 --> 02:03:56,800
some more questions here Robert if you'd

2901
02:04:03,089 --> 02:04:00,070
like from our posters at forum dr. Perik

2902
02:04:05,220 --> 02:04:03,099
ask comm srl has another question for

2903
02:04:07,169 --> 02:04:05,230
you and he's wondering if you've looked

2904
02:04:10,109 --> 02:04:07,179
into the Ariel school incident in rural

2905
02:04:11,070 --> 02:04:10,119
Zimbabwe in 1994 and John Mac's work

2906
02:04:13,790 --> 02:04:11,080
with that and other

2907
02:04:17,070 --> 02:04:13,800
who have subsequently gone back

2908
02:04:20,040 --> 02:04:17,080
interviewed the the kids I know James

2909
02:04:22,050 --> 02:04:20,050
Fox has gone back recently for his seven

2910
02:04:24,420 --> 02:04:22,060
to one movie project with Tracy Torme

2911
02:04:26,340 --> 02:04:24,430
what do you think those kids saw I

2912
02:04:28,440 --> 02:04:26,350
really haven't looked into it that much

2913
02:04:32,070 --> 02:04:28,450
I did hear a talk there was talk

2914
02:04:34,440 --> 02:04:32,080
somebody gave have one of the UFO

2915
02:04:36,600 --> 02:04:34,450
Congress is about two years ago or

2916
02:04:38,610 --> 02:04:36,610
something like that and I would have to

2917
02:04:40,500 --> 02:04:38,620
say I don't really know enough about it

2918
02:04:42,030 --> 02:04:40,510
that as I understand it only the

2919
02:04:44,310 --> 02:04:42,040
children saw something and none of the

2920
02:04:46,380 --> 02:04:44,320
features none of the adults saw anything

2921
02:04:48,330 --> 02:04:46,390
the interesting question is you know the

2922
02:04:50,400 --> 02:04:48,340
could this be something something that

2923
02:04:52,170 --> 02:04:50,410
the children made up for that they you

2924
02:04:54,810 --> 02:04:52,180
know wanted to play a trick on their

2925
02:04:56,760 --> 02:04:54,820
teachers or could it be somebody was

2926
02:04:59,460 --> 02:04:56,770
playing a trick on the children I mean I

2927
02:05:01,620 --> 02:04:59,470
I just don't really know enough about it

2928
02:05:03,960 --> 02:05:01,630
you know that we get it into veracity

2929
02:05:05,790 --> 02:05:03,970
questions here again witness questions

2930
02:05:08,070 --> 02:05:05,800
and again the bottom line is we don't

2931
02:05:09,510 --> 02:05:08,080
have any tangible evidence from this we

2932
02:05:13,260 --> 02:05:09,520
just have what people are saying and

2933
02:05:15,750 --> 02:05:13,270
again the Royal Society would say I

2934
02:05:17,280 --> 02:05:15,760
think nobody's word for it so I would

2935
02:05:19,740 --> 02:05:17,290
exclude that from scientific

2936
02:05:21,510 --> 02:05:19,750
consideration for that reason okay well

2937
02:05:23,730 --> 02:05:21,520
what do you think about the idea of the

2938
02:05:26,340 --> 02:05:23,740
breakaway civilization there's even a

2939
02:05:29,520 --> 02:05:26,350
conference now I see being advertised

2940
02:05:32,690 --> 02:05:29,530
with Joseph Ferrell Richard Dolan and

2941
02:05:35,310 --> 02:05:32,700
others who have been sort of musing and

2942
02:05:38,310 --> 02:05:35,320
proposing this idea that we have a

2943
02:05:40,110 --> 02:05:38,320
breakaway civilization that has a exotic

2944
02:05:42,870 --> 02:05:40,120
level of technology that's hidden from

2945
02:05:45,780 --> 02:05:42,880
from you know the average average person

2946
02:05:47,820 --> 02:05:45,790
and that we have made great strides with

2947
02:05:49,860 --> 02:05:47,830
some sort of secret space program for

2948
02:05:52,110 --> 02:05:49,870
instance do you think that this is even

2949
02:05:53,820 --> 02:05:52,120
plausible number one and number two if

2950
02:05:55,890 --> 02:05:53,830
it is plausible how could you keep

2951
02:05:56,700 --> 02:05:55,900
something like that secret well yeah I

2952
02:05:58,680 --> 02:05:56,710
think you've answered the question

2953
02:06:00,360 --> 02:05:58,690
yourself there and just in asking it I'm

2954
02:06:02,550 --> 02:06:00,370
not sure what they mean by break away

2955
02:06:03,930 --> 02:06:02,560
they mean like it's a secret space

2956
02:06:06,390 --> 02:06:03,940
program or are they talking about

2957
02:06:08,400 --> 02:06:06,400
something like the shaver mystery and

2958
02:06:10,080 --> 02:06:08,410
holes in the poles and Darryl robots

2959
02:06:12,600 --> 02:06:10,090
under the ground no I think it's it's

2960
02:06:16,110 --> 02:06:12,610
more of a level of technology that's

2961
02:06:17,550 --> 02:06:16,120
been advanced far beyond the public

2962
02:06:20,070 --> 02:06:17,560
awareness of of state-of-the-art

2963
02:06:21,360 --> 02:06:20,080
technology and it's being used by the I

2964
02:06:24,770 --> 02:06:21,370
guess the military-industrial complex

2965
02:06:28,160 --> 02:06:24,780
elite and the one-percenters to

2966
02:06:30,620 --> 02:06:28,170
some sort of a program that the

2967
02:06:32,930 --> 02:06:30,630
rank-and-file the 99% are not going to

2968
02:06:35,870 --> 02:06:32,940
be told of I don't think it has to do

2969
02:06:39,439 --> 02:06:35,880
with anything as I don't want to use the

2970
02:06:42,859 --> 02:06:39,449
word preposterous but I think it's it's

2971
02:06:45,490 --> 02:06:42,869
more of a technological thing it kind of

2972
02:06:48,229 --> 02:06:45,500
boils down to the gary mckinnon claim of

2973
02:06:50,060 --> 02:06:48,239
160 off-planet naval officers that sort

2974
02:06:52,100 --> 02:06:50,070
of thing there's little hints here and

2975
02:06:54,560 --> 02:06:52,110
there in the literature that there may

2976
02:06:56,870 --> 02:06:54,570
be some sort of exalted technology

2977
02:06:58,899 --> 02:06:56,880
development program that's quite a bit

2978
02:07:02,870 --> 02:06:58,909
ahead of you know the acknowledged

2979
02:07:05,779 --> 02:07:02,880
technological curve technology follows

2980
02:07:07,879 --> 02:07:05,789
science it doesn't precede it so science

2981
02:07:10,100 --> 02:07:07,889
breakthroughs have to come first and

2982
02:07:13,279 --> 02:07:10,110
then technological breakthroughs can

2983
02:07:15,439 --> 02:07:13,289
follow behind on the science in that so

2984
02:07:17,330 --> 02:07:15,449
the question is what scientific

2985
02:07:19,879 --> 02:07:17,340
breakthroughs could have occurred in

2986
02:07:21,830 --> 02:07:19,889
secret and not tell anyone about it and

2987
02:07:24,260 --> 02:07:21,840
then go ahead and build a whole new

2988
02:07:26,629 --> 02:07:24,270
technology or secret space program based

2989
02:07:29,479 --> 02:07:26,639
on these technologies are based on these

2990
02:07:32,270 --> 02:07:29,489
findings I don't find that credible at

2991
02:07:34,569 --> 02:07:32,280
all if you've ever spent any time into

2992
02:07:37,040 --> 02:07:34,579
like science departments in any

2993
02:07:38,839 --> 02:07:37,050
universities these people are the worst

2994
02:07:40,640 --> 02:07:38,849
people in the world as far as keeping

2995
02:07:44,149 --> 02:07:40,650
something secret you know as far as

2996
02:07:46,100 --> 02:07:44,159
sharing and as far as whispering rumors

2997
02:07:48,529 --> 02:07:46,110
and whatever they go pretty fast anytime

2998
02:07:51,020 --> 02:07:48,539
that there's a rumor a breakthrough and

2999
02:07:51,740 --> 02:07:51,030
some discovery in atomic physics or

3000
02:07:53,629 --> 02:07:51,750
something like that

3001
02:07:55,609 --> 02:07:53,639
we always hear you know the rumors

3002
02:07:57,890 --> 02:07:55,619
coming through weeks or months before

3003
02:08:00,229 --> 02:07:57,900
the paper gets published so certainly

3004
02:08:02,779 --> 02:08:00,239
there if there were some let's

3005
02:08:04,520 --> 02:08:02,789
hypothetically say some advanced type of

3006
02:08:06,560 --> 02:08:04,530
rocket propulsion some advanced

3007
02:08:08,779 --> 02:08:06,570
chemicals or something that the public

3008
02:08:11,060 --> 02:08:08,789
don't know about you there would be a

3009
02:08:13,520 --> 02:08:11,070
whole paper trail of you know scientific

3010
02:08:15,470 --> 02:08:13,530
discoveries of papers of conferences and

3011
02:08:17,390 --> 02:08:15,480
things like this maybe people wouldn't

3012
02:08:19,250 --> 02:08:17,400
be admitted to the conference but it'd

3013
02:08:21,379 --> 02:08:19,260
be pretty hard to hide the fact that

3014
02:08:23,209 --> 02:08:21,389
conference was occurring and that the

3015
02:08:25,010 --> 02:08:23,219
all these you know important scientists

3016
02:08:26,419 --> 02:08:25,020
were there like I said these are the

3017
02:08:28,459 --> 02:08:26,429
worst people in the world that you know

3018
02:08:31,040 --> 02:08:28,469
if keeping things like that secret they

3019
02:08:32,689 --> 02:08:31,050
would say probably some large number of

3020
02:08:35,509 --> 02:08:32,699
them would say that you know this is too

3021
02:08:37,979 --> 02:08:35,519
important to keep secret so I just don't

3022
02:08:40,259 --> 02:08:37,989
think it could be done at all the other

3023
02:08:42,500 --> 02:08:40,269
Joseph Ferrell brought up in a number of

3024
02:08:44,939 --> 02:08:42,510
his books the whole idea of the Nazis

3025
02:08:47,279 --> 02:08:44,949
developing I think what has been termed

3026
02:08:49,680 --> 02:08:47,289
aether physics a second branch of

3027
02:08:51,779 --> 02:08:49,690
physics to relativity and that that

3028
02:08:53,700 --> 02:08:51,789
these types of early experiments may

3029
02:08:55,229 --> 02:08:53,710
have been co-opted by the Allies at the

3030
02:08:58,290 --> 02:08:55,239
end of the war and then secretly

3031
02:09:00,290 --> 02:08:58,300
developed that's one theory involves red

3032
02:09:02,339 --> 02:09:00,300
mercury and some pretty interesting

3033
02:09:04,859 --> 02:09:02,349
documentation that Farrell is dug up

3034
02:09:07,830 --> 02:09:04,869
he's quite a researcher in his own right

3035
02:09:10,560 --> 02:09:07,840
you know Oxford trained then that would

3036
02:09:14,250 --> 02:09:10,570
be one example of what could be termed

3037
02:09:16,200 --> 02:09:14,260
as a breakaway technology didn't like

3038
02:09:18,419 --> 02:09:16,210
relativity because it was they called it

3039
02:09:20,939 --> 02:09:18,429
Jewish physics because Einstein was

3040
02:09:23,489 --> 02:09:20,949
Jewish and so then they wanted their own

3041
02:09:25,470 --> 02:09:23,499
form of Aryan physics that would be

3042
02:09:28,229 --> 02:09:25,480
superior because Aryan race was superior

3043
02:09:30,390 --> 02:09:28,239
to the Jewish race and so their physics

3044
02:09:32,100 --> 02:09:30,400
would be better this was I mean it's

3045
02:09:34,140 --> 02:09:32,110
true that many of them believe this and

3046
02:09:36,419 --> 02:09:34,150
they they actually did state things like

3047
02:09:38,759 --> 02:09:36,429
that but it was was nonsense it was you

3048
02:09:41,040 --> 02:09:38,769
know based on nothing it's just you know

3049
02:09:43,350 --> 02:09:41,050
there are political racist theories

3050
02:09:45,450 --> 02:09:43,360
that's based on that's all nobody's ever

3051
02:09:47,910 --> 02:09:45,460
shown that anything ever came of this

3052
02:09:49,859 --> 02:09:47,920
and as far as red mercury I've heard the

3053
02:09:51,720 --> 02:09:49,869
claims I don't know what red mercury

3054
02:09:53,430 --> 02:09:51,730
would be or what it supposedly would do

3055
02:09:55,709 --> 02:09:53,440
then there's the Nazi bell

3056
02:09:57,870 --> 02:09:55,719
supposedly that this stuff seems to have

3057
02:10:00,089 --> 02:09:57,880
actually been made up quite a bit later

3058
02:10:03,540 --> 02:10:00,099
than the war this is not doesn't go back

3059
02:10:06,509 --> 02:10:03,550
to the war or the the you know aftermath

3060
02:10:09,870 --> 02:10:06,519
of the war it goes up to instead you

3061
02:10:11,640 --> 02:10:09,880
know it's a it's a more recent origin so

3062
02:10:13,379 --> 02:10:11,650
you know I haven't seen anything that

3063
02:10:16,709 --> 02:10:13,389
suggests that any of the so-called

3064
02:10:18,450 --> 02:10:16,719
breakaway physics might be true okay we

3065
02:10:20,430 --> 02:10:18,460
got more to come with Robert Schaefer

3066
02:10:25,530 --> 02:10:20,440
and Jean and Chris you're in the para

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3165
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to the Parrikar on the power cast with

3166
02:14:50,760 --> 02:14:48,250
gene and Chris UFO skeptic Robert

3167
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Schaffer and remind you again we have a

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eBook form and you can get a copy very

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simple go to the power cast com that's

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the power cast calm and right above the

3173
02:15:08,760 --> 02:15:06,550
fold we have this link where you could

3174
02:15:11,850 --> 02:15:08,770
subscribe to our weekly newsletter of

3175
02:15:16,050 --> 02:15:11,860
news and views and such you subscribe

3176
02:15:17,580 --> 02:15:16,060
we'll send you a copy Chris okay SRL has

3177
02:15:19,979 --> 02:15:17,590
a very interesting question here and I'm

3178
02:15:22,050 --> 02:15:19,989
looking forward to your your response to

3179
02:15:24,150 --> 02:15:22,060
it he wants to know what you think about

3180
02:15:26,760 --> 02:15:24,160
the research of Ariel anomalies being

3181
02:15:30,300 --> 02:15:26,770
conducted through NAR cap which is of

3182
02:15:32,610 --> 02:15:30,310
course a Tedrow and Richard Haines

3183
02:15:35,880 --> 02:15:32,620
Richard Haines I've met Richard Haines a

3184
02:15:37,709 --> 02:15:35,890
few times not recently well again it's

3185
02:15:39,930 --> 02:15:37,719
something of a mixed bag I mean I'm sure

3186
02:15:41,220 --> 02:15:39,940
some of it is good I'm thinking wait a

3187
02:15:42,870 --> 02:15:41,230
minute when you see some of it is good

3188
02:15:45,810 --> 02:15:42,880
are you talking these these pilots are

3189
02:15:48,330 --> 02:15:45,820
saying true unknowns explain some of

3190
02:15:50,550 --> 02:15:48,340
their analysis might be good some of it

3191
02:15:52,350 --> 02:15:50,560
but just because you know you've tried

3192
02:15:54,420 --> 02:15:52,360
to rule out one thing doesn't mean that

3193
02:15:56,970 --> 02:15:54,430
you know it's not something else that

3194
02:15:59,550 --> 02:15:56,980
one thing that comes to my mind was so

3195
02:16:03,870 --> 02:15:59,560
in the last year or so Leslie Kean and

3196
02:16:06,000 --> 02:16:03,880
her fly UFO you know this thing in Chile

3197
02:16:07,860 --> 02:16:06,010
where she said is this the case that

3198
02:16:10,320 --> 02:16:07,870
your host ethics have been dreading and

3199
02:16:12,420 --> 02:16:10,330
then she has then some video that was

3200
02:16:13,740 --> 02:16:12,430
submitted by somebody at this air show

3201
02:16:16,170 --> 02:16:13,750
all right

3202
02:16:17,850 --> 02:16:16,180
in Chile and it shows the airplanes

3203
02:16:19,140 --> 02:16:17,860
flying by then it shows something else

3204
02:16:20,820 --> 02:16:19,150
going by very quickly when the

3205
02:16:23,490 --> 02:16:20,830
businesses well I'm adding the

3206
02:16:26,459 --> 02:16:23,500
soundtrack there but yeah basically bugs

3207
02:16:29,760 --> 02:16:26,469
yeah she was convinced it couldn't be

3208
02:16:32,850 --> 02:16:29,770
bugs and finally she got she kind of got

3209
02:16:37,620 --> 02:16:32,860
herself out you know went way way beyond

3210
02:16:39,509 --> 02:16:37,630
where you know one could reliably defend

3211
02:16:41,640 --> 02:16:39,519
when one was saying and so she was

3212
02:16:44,580 --> 02:16:41,650
looking for some sort of support or some

3213
02:16:46,410 --> 02:16:44,590
sort of you know they basically do it

3214
02:16:49,969 --> 02:16:46,420
again that you can't take that

3215
02:16:52,250 --> 02:16:49,979
particular questionable claim and

3216
02:16:55,580 --> 02:16:52,260
use that to discount all the incredible

3217
02:16:57,500 --> 02:16:55,590
very well-documented cases in her book

3218
02:16:59,599 --> 02:16:57,510
there are some well you know that I'm

3219
02:17:01,519 --> 02:16:59,609
well that's a separate issue the reason

3220
02:17:05,149 --> 02:17:01,529
I bring it up is because of Nar cap and

3221
02:17:07,939 --> 02:17:05,159
hangs ultimately she got two analyses of

3222
02:17:10,580 --> 02:17:07,949
the fly UFO video one from Bruce

3223
02:17:12,379 --> 02:17:10,590
Maccabee who said it was an insect and

3224
02:17:14,239 --> 02:17:12,389
then the other one was from Haines who

3225
02:17:16,849 --> 02:17:14,249
said no it's can't be an insect it's

3226
02:17:18,439 --> 02:17:16,859
beyond physics it's you know and beyond

3227
02:17:21,019 --> 02:17:18,449
anything that you know we have knowledge

3228
02:17:23,719 --> 02:17:21,029
of so she pronounced the case to be no

3229
02:17:27,529 --> 02:17:23,729
unsolvable to me anybody who says that

3230
02:17:29,629 --> 02:17:27,539
what is obviously photograph of a video

3231
02:17:31,459 --> 02:17:29,639
of insects going around that this is

3232
02:17:34,219 --> 02:17:31,469
something that's you know beyond science

3233
02:17:36,139 --> 02:17:34,229
I think one has to really question their

3234
02:17:38,269 --> 02:17:36,149
analyses there especially since we have

3235
02:17:41,479 --> 02:17:38,279
now turned up any number of subsequent

3236
02:17:41,959 --> 02:17:41,489
fly UFO videos that are making the

3237
02:17:44,239 --> 02:17:41,969
rounds

3238
02:17:46,669 --> 02:17:44,249
there was one big thing in Denver all

3239
02:17:48,950 --> 02:17:46,679
recently where it was a hill somewhere

3240
02:17:50,750 --> 02:17:48,960
out in the toward the suburbs where

3241
02:17:53,479 --> 02:17:50,760
people know right with the rob chase

3242
02:17:56,330 --> 02:17:53,489
entering and leaving the ground so I

3243
02:17:58,580 --> 02:17:56,340
mean if NAR cap would pronounce that to

3244
02:18:00,259 --> 02:17:58,590
be something that's unexplainable then I

3245
02:18:03,200 --> 02:18:00,269
think I would have a serious problem

3246
02:18:05,989 --> 02:18:03,210
with their analyses well don't you think

3247
02:18:09,950 --> 02:18:05,999
we're going into a a time period where

3248
02:18:13,549 --> 02:18:09,960
the pop culture TV driven views of these

3249
02:18:17,589 --> 02:18:13,559
mysteries are being embraced by by

3250
02:18:20,209 --> 02:18:17,599
untrained uneducated folks possibly

3251
02:18:21,469 --> 02:18:20,219
leading them to conclusions that they've

3252
02:18:23,719 --> 02:18:21,479
already kind of made up in their own

3253
02:18:26,149 --> 02:18:23,729
mind don't you see this as being really

3254
02:18:29,540 --> 02:18:26,159
problematic as we move forward in the

3255
02:18:32,870 --> 02:18:29,550
21st century with the the CGI hoaxes and

3256
02:18:34,279 --> 02:18:32,880
some of these websites that are being

3257
02:18:36,649 --> 02:18:34,289
touted as you know they're touting

3258
02:18:39,410 --> 02:18:36,659
themselves as having the best UFO

3259
02:18:42,439 --> 02:18:39,420
footage I mean how are we gonna put the

3260
02:18:44,660 --> 02:18:42,449
kibosh on the time wasting stuff and

3261
02:18:47,839 --> 02:18:44,670
concentrate on the five six maybe seven

3262
02:18:49,549 --> 02:18:47,849
percent of sightings that deserve real

3263
02:18:51,649 --> 02:18:49,559
serious scientific scrutiny

3264
02:18:53,870 --> 02:18:51,659
well yes I agree with what you're saying

3265
02:18:56,809 --> 02:18:53,880
there and in fact it's going back to

3266
02:18:58,759 --> 02:18:56,819
what I was saying earlier about phases

3267
02:19:00,709 --> 02:18:58,769
and things in terms of ufology what's

3268
02:19:03,019 --> 02:19:00,719
what's hot for a while and then what's

3269
02:19:03,860 --> 02:19:03,029
not becomes cold we have not developed

3270
02:19:06,490 --> 02:19:03,870
anything

3271
02:19:10,490 --> 02:19:06,500
to be hot in the sense of probative

3272
02:19:12,220 --> 02:19:10,500
beyond the saucer crash claims I guess

3273
02:19:15,350 --> 02:19:12,230
you could try to argue that this

3274
02:19:17,900 --> 02:19:15,360
breakaway technology and the Nazi bell

3275
02:19:20,209 --> 02:19:17,910
and whatever else is uh maybe a new

3276
02:19:21,470 --> 02:19:20,219
direction for it but III don't see that

3277
02:19:23,570 --> 02:19:21,480
there's much there there there really

3278
02:19:26,570 --> 02:19:23,580
isn't that much look at in your last

3279
02:19:29,780 --> 02:19:26,580
Barrett cast with the with Micah Hanks

3280
02:19:32,000 --> 02:19:29,790
and he he was talking about he mentioned

3281
02:19:33,740 --> 02:19:32,010
my name fairly early on and then he then

3282
02:19:36,140 --> 02:19:33,750
he went often said all these skeptical

3283
02:19:39,379 --> 02:19:36,150
bloggers are talking about the death of

3284
02:19:40,910 --> 02:19:39,389
ufology and it's ending well first of

3285
02:19:43,970 --> 02:19:40,920
all there aren't that many skeptical

3286
02:19:46,160 --> 02:19:43,980
bloggers writing about UFOs I think I'm

3287
02:19:48,169 --> 02:19:46,170
one of the very few especially in this

3288
02:19:48,920 --> 02:19:48,179
country yeah they don't want to get

3289
02:19:53,930 --> 02:19:48,930
slimed

3290
02:19:55,850 --> 02:19:53,940
right but that article that whoever was

3291
02:19:57,980 --> 02:19:55,860
it wrote about how the he went to the

3292
02:20:00,230 --> 02:19:57,990
mutant conference and said that ufology

3293
02:20:04,280 --> 02:20:00,240
is ending I don't agree that it's ending

3294
02:20:05,870 --> 02:20:04,290
I but I do agree that it's changing as I

3295
02:20:08,660 --> 02:20:05,880
said before that you know there there

3296
02:20:10,370 --> 02:20:08,670
are trends there are fads the fads get

3297
02:20:14,140 --> 02:20:10,380
hot and then they get cold after a while

3298
02:20:16,670 --> 02:20:14,150
I think that the the old paradigm that

3299
02:20:20,000 --> 02:20:16,680
represents that MUFON represents is

3300
02:20:22,280 --> 02:20:20,010
getting cold and is failing to have a

3301
02:20:24,770 --> 02:20:22,290
lot of people following it that it's the

3302
02:20:27,890 --> 02:20:24,780
old MUFON now the new MUFON as in hangar

3303
02:20:30,110 --> 02:20:27,900
1 um is alive and well and it's very

3304
02:20:32,900 --> 02:20:30,120
little different from that damn ski or

3305
02:20:34,610 --> 02:20:32,910
anything else that went before we're

3306
02:20:36,290 --> 02:20:34,620
just a you know a small amount of

3307
02:20:40,070 --> 02:20:36,300
investigation will show that this is

3308
02:20:41,690 --> 02:20:40,080
absolute rubbish so yeah it is

3309
02:20:45,620 --> 02:20:41,700
problematic and I think it's mostly the

3310
02:20:47,270 --> 02:20:45,630
younger folks who are who are promoting

3311
02:20:50,301 --> 02:20:47,280
this and who are who are the audience

3312
02:20:52,341 --> 02:20:50,311
for this and they don't know what's gone

3313
02:20:53,630 --> 02:20:52,351
before they they don't realize the

3314
02:20:57,350 --> 02:20:53,640
claims that have been made before that

3315
02:20:59,650 --> 02:20:57,360
have either been refuted or have shown

3316
02:21:03,410 --> 02:20:59,660
to basically to lead nowhere

3317
02:21:05,511 --> 02:21:03,420
if you know a certain you know types of

3318
02:21:06,290 --> 02:21:05,521
sightings or or certain locations or

3319
02:21:08,210 --> 02:21:06,300
something if there were something

3320
02:21:12,410 --> 02:21:08,220
miraculous that were really happening

3321
02:21:14,000 --> 02:21:12,420
let's say in the San Luis Valley claims

3322
02:21:15,080 --> 02:21:14,010
go back far enough but you know we would

3323
02:21:16,520 --> 02:21:15,090
have found it by now there'd be enough

3324
02:21:17,600 --> 02:21:16,530
people out there at that UFO Watchtower

3325
02:21:19,251 --> 02:21:17,610
who

3326
02:21:20,720 --> 02:21:19,261
would have cameras in whatever it was

3327
02:21:22,791 --> 02:21:20,730
that really anything going on

3328
02:21:24,950 --> 02:21:22,801
you know we'd have the evidence of it by

3329
02:21:26,780 --> 02:21:24,960
now and that's not what will Spacey

3330
02:21:28,970 --> 02:21:26,790
Robert when I get my San Luis Valley

3331
02:21:30,890 --> 02:21:28,980
surveillance camera project up we'll see

3332
02:21:34,671 --> 02:21:30,900
what we come up with well let me just

3333
02:21:36,770 --> 02:21:34,681
add something here about the MUFON event

3334
02:21:38,900 --> 02:21:36,780
400 people attended according to New

3335
02:21:40,310 --> 02:21:38,910
York magazine now Chris and I mentioned

3336
02:21:43,120 --> 02:21:40,320
this last week although there was some

3337
02:21:47,001 --> 02:21:43,130
dispute as to the attendance this

3338
02:21:50,331 --> 02:21:47,011
contact in the desert event now Chris

3339
02:21:51,890 --> 02:21:50,341
you said mm someone else said 4,000 so

3340
02:21:53,751 --> 02:21:51,900
certainly some people are attending

3341
02:21:56,180 --> 02:21:53,761
these conventions although I should

3342
02:21:59,961 --> 02:21:56,190
point out as a reality check the San

3343
02:22:02,180 --> 02:21:59,971
Diego comic-con attracting a wide range

3344
02:22:05,570 --> 02:22:02,190
of people they got a hundred thirty

3345
02:22:08,660 --> 02:22:05,580
thousand yes we never had a UFO

3346
02:22:10,761 --> 02:22:08,670
convention that big no there were 70,000

3347
02:22:12,110 --> 02:22:10,771
watching at Fatima what do you think of

3348
02:22:13,820 --> 02:22:12,120
all those people and what they saw

3349
02:22:16,700 --> 02:22:13,830
that's another question from our of our

3350
02:22:18,470 --> 02:22:16,710
forum posters any time you stare up at

3351
02:22:20,600 --> 02:22:18,480
the Sun you're going to start you've

3352
02:22:22,461 --> 02:22:20,610
been as start to burn images in your

3353
02:22:25,700 --> 02:22:22,471
retina and either permanently or

3354
02:22:27,620 --> 02:22:25,710
temporarily depending on how how long

3355
02:22:30,980 --> 02:22:27,630
you stare and then how bright the Sun

3356
02:22:34,091 --> 02:22:30,990
was at that time how many clouds but he

3357
02:22:36,140 --> 02:22:34,101
also had say that of those 70,000 people

3358
02:22:37,761 --> 02:22:36,150
probably almost all of them were very

3359
02:22:41,421 --> 02:22:37,771
devout Catholics with certain

3360
02:22:43,461 --> 02:22:41,431
expectations and with certain you know

3361
02:22:46,730 --> 02:22:43,471
there was an agenda there there what

3362
02:22:48,440 --> 02:22:46,740
this was not a you know a non-biased sky

3363
02:22:50,841 --> 02:22:48,450
watch so to speak they went there hoping

3364
02:22:52,850 --> 02:22:50,851
to see miracle and oh my god they got

3365
02:22:54,770 --> 02:22:52,860
one by God they got one and also I

3366
02:22:57,261 --> 02:22:54,780
wonder how many you know if you could

3367
02:22:59,631 --> 02:22:57,271
get going back to what we said about the

3368
02:23:01,850 --> 02:22:59,641
the earliest reports are the best I

3369
02:23:03,350 --> 02:23:01,860
don't know if anybody got reports you

3370
02:23:05,751 --> 02:23:03,360
know like on the very same day the very

3371
02:23:07,610 --> 02:23:05,761
same time before stuff was published and

3372
02:23:09,470 --> 02:23:07,620
people had a chance to talk to each

3373
02:23:12,461 --> 02:23:09,480
other to kind of smooth out the

3374
02:23:15,530 --> 02:23:12,471
differences I think it's just a you know

3375
02:23:17,180 --> 02:23:15,540
case of mass hysteria people have some

3376
02:23:19,100 --> 02:23:17,190
very strong feelings and strong

3377
02:23:20,390 --> 02:23:19,110
religious expectations and by god

3378
02:23:23,450 --> 02:23:20,400
they're gonna see a miracle because

3379
02:23:25,820 --> 02:23:23,460
there is one or not so but yeah blind

3380
02:23:26,480 --> 02:23:25,830
will see and the crippled will walk yeah

3381
02:23:28,100 --> 02:23:26,490
exactly

3382
02:23:29,570 --> 02:23:28,110
but that's interesting I don't know if

3383
02:23:31,370 --> 02:23:29,580
they had two to four thousand out there

3384
02:23:33,350 --> 02:23:31,380
I can't imagine where those people

3385
02:23:35,900 --> 02:23:33,360
they stay in tents out there and just

3386
02:23:38,330 --> 02:23:35,910
yeah it was pretty messy all the porter

3387
02:23:41,000 --> 02:23:38,340
cans filled up and overflowed they've

3388
02:23:43,160 --> 02:23:41,010
lost power there wasn't enough water it

3389
02:23:44,870 --> 02:23:43,170
sounds like a real nightmare to me yeah

3390
02:23:46,670 --> 02:23:44,880
it does because I think that that

3391
02:23:49,219 --> 02:23:46,680
Convention Center what did they say only

3392
02:23:50,570 --> 02:23:49,229
they have a couple hundred facilities

3393
02:23:54,110 --> 02:23:50,580
for a couple hundred people to stay

3394
02:23:56,450 --> 02:23:54,120
there Oh where's the fire marshal when

3395
02:23:58,910 --> 02:23:56,460
you really need him yeah especially with

3396
02:24:03,219 --> 02:23:58,920
certain speakers locking the doors that

3397
02:24:07,670 --> 02:24:06,170
well we won't even ask you what some of

3398
02:24:09,800 --> 02:24:07,680
the videos that are out there and it's

3399
02:24:12,139 --> 02:24:09,810
obvious these are the sort of the

3400
02:24:14,210 --> 02:24:12,149
new-age type these were not commute fun

3401
02:24:15,830 --> 02:24:14,220
type people that's that it's a whole

3402
02:24:17,540 --> 02:24:15,840
different thing we have another

3403
02:24:19,250 --> 02:24:17,550
different thing to present here you have

3404
02:24:27,020 --> 02:24:19,260
Robert Shaye for joining Jean and Kris

3405
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3406
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3414
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3415
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02:28:46,390 --> 02:28:43,370
healer Academy hi this is nuclear

3508
02:28:49,900 --> 02:28:46,400
physicist lecturers and Friedman you are

3509
02:28:57,970 --> 02:28:49,910
listening to the American the gold

3510
02:29:00,671 --> 02:28:57,980
standard a paranormal radio now I should

3511
02:29:02,560 --> 02:29:00,681
say Robert Schaeffer I'm down on most

3512
02:29:04,660 --> 02:29:02,570
UFO conferences because they seem to

3513
02:29:08,131 --> 02:29:04,670
attract the same people unfortunately

3514
02:29:13,600 --> 02:29:08,141
tend to attract an older demographic

3515
02:29:17,110 --> 02:29:13,610
like mine yeah so I think if forgetting

3516
02:29:20,640 --> 02:29:17,120
the questions of the reality of UFOs or

3517
02:29:23,560 --> 02:29:20,650
non reality I think that entire paradigm

3518
02:29:25,270 --> 02:29:23,570
doesn't work in the traditional sense

3519
02:29:27,220 --> 02:29:25,280
just having people get up and speak

3520
02:29:29,171 --> 02:29:27,230
you've got to have entertainment now

3521
02:29:32,770 --> 02:29:29,181
that's why like a comic-con works

3522
02:29:34,390 --> 02:29:32,780
because it's not just you know having a

3523
02:29:37,001 --> 02:29:34,400
lecturer get up and speak with a bunch

3524
02:29:40,961 --> 02:29:37,011
of slides my god there's Henry Cavill

3525
02:29:42,520 --> 02:29:40,971
Superman and Ben Affleck as Batman and

3526
02:29:44,591 --> 02:29:42,530
the new Wonder Woman they can see these

3527
02:29:46,830 --> 02:29:44,601
people in person they participate in

3528
02:29:50,950 --> 02:29:46,840
panels they try to make it entertaining

3529
02:29:53,110 --> 02:29:50,960
they lost on the UFO crowd accepting the

3530
02:29:54,520 --> 02:29:53,120
reality or non reality is irrelevant

3531
02:29:57,100 --> 02:29:54,530
they still have to attract an audience

3532
02:29:59,110 --> 02:29:57,110
right and the people bring their own

3533
02:30:02,261 --> 02:29:59,120
entertainment to a thing like Comic Con

3534
02:30:03,400 --> 02:30:02,271
with their costumes and little LaVey and

3535
02:30:05,591 --> 02:30:03,410
not just costumes

3536
02:30:08,051 --> 02:30:05,601
with little improv acts and things like

3537
02:30:11,110 --> 02:30:08,061
that that are very common they're so

3538
02:30:12,940 --> 02:30:11,120
based on just only the videos that I was

3539
02:30:15,100 --> 02:30:12,950
watching the last few days about this

3540
02:30:17,950 --> 02:30:15,110
contact in the desert I think it tends

3541
02:30:21,160 --> 02:30:17,960
to be a younger crowd that so be much

3542
02:30:24,820 --> 02:30:21,170
more oriented towards new age towards uh

3543
02:30:26,610 --> 02:30:24,830
contact the aid towards more of a

3544
02:30:28,870 --> 02:30:26,620
personal relationship with the

3545
02:30:31,060 --> 02:30:28,880
extraterrestrials with the phenomenon if

3546
02:30:34,870 --> 02:30:31,070
you go back to the old the old school

3547
02:30:38,670 --> 02:30:34,880
major Keyhoe when we were kids you and I

3548
02:30:42,100 --> 02:30:38,680
genus oldsters back in the 1950s and 60s

3549
02:30:44,650 --> 02:30:42,110
what the UFOs represent are or should we

3550
02:30:45,400 --> 02:30:44,660
say who represents UFOs or flying

3551
02:30:47,080 --> 02:30:45,410
saucers

3552
02:30:50,290 --> 02:30:47,090
well it's somebody like major Keyhoe

3553
02:30:53,860 --> 02:30:50,300
it's not gap it's they call people like

3554
02:30:56,290 --> 02:30:53,870
this okay and now that's not the case

3555
02:30:58,930 --> 02:30:56,300
that's going through you know these hot

3556
02:31:02,730 --> 02:30:58,940
and cold places and now we're on to more

3557
02:31:06,160 --> 02:31:02,740
it's just the wild evangelicals

3558
02:31:08,680 --> 02:31:06,170
evangelicals yes the whole thing about

3559
02:31:11,620 --> 02:31:08,690
the contactor of the abductees it

3560
02:31:13,780 --> 02:31:11,630
started out as you know a few people who

3561
02:31:16,060 --> 02:31:13,790
were out and frightened and pulled

3562
02:31:17,530 --> 02:31:16,070
themselves about you know what might or

3563
02:31:19,960 --> 02:31:17,540
might not have happened out in the

3564
02:31:23,200 --> 02:31:19,970
wilderness but then once you get to Budd

3565
02:31:26,350 --> 02:31:23,210
Hopkins in the early 80s you no longer

3566
02:31:27,240 --> 02:31:26,360
need to go out into the desert or even

3567
02:31:28,390 --> 02:31:27,250
in your backyard to see

3568
02:31:30,460 --> 02:31:28,400
extraterrestrials and extraterrestrials

3569
02:31:32,770 --> 02:31:30,470
will come right into your bedroom and

3570
02:31:35,530 --> 02:31:32,780
take you and then you talk about

3571
02:31:38,100 --> 02:31:35,540
repeated abductions and so it's very

3572
02:31:40,330 --> 02:31:38,110
much a personal relationship with the

3573
02:31:42,100 --> 02:31:40,340
phenomenon that these people are

3574
02:31:45,400 --> 02:31:42,110
claiming and that really seems to be

3575
02:31:47,730 --> 02:31:45,410
where the whole thing is going nobody

3576
02:31:51,040 --> 02:31:47,740
cares about the old major Keyhoe

3577
02:31:53,710 --> 02:31:51,050
type of reported phenomenon which is I

3578
02:31:55,360 --> 02:31:53,720
got a rumor from an Air Force pilot that

3579
02:31:57,040 --> 02:31:55,370
he chased something that went 10 times

3580
02:31:59,801 --> 02:31:57,050
the speed of sound and made a right act

3581
02:32:02,620 --> 02:31:59,811
makyo didn't say rumour he would quote

3582
02:32:05,040 --> 02:32:02,630
people saying I got this report not a

3583
02:32:07,030 --> 02:32:05,050
rumor so let's just kind of clarify that

3584
02:32:07,841 --> 02:32:07,040
regardless of what you think about

3585
02:32:10,420 --> 02:32:07,851
what's going on

3586
02:32:13,600 --> 02:32:10,430
but even then regardless of what you

3587
02:32:16,420 --> 02:32:13,610
think here obviously a lot of people are

3588
02:32:17,270 --> 02:32:16,430
continuing to report UFO sightings a lot

3589
02:32:21,410 --> 02:32:17,280
of these sighting

3590
02:32:23,330 --> 02:32:21,420
you seem to have some sense of being

3591
02:32:25,430 --> 02:32:23,340
lights in the sky most of the photos you

3592
02:32:27,740 --> 02:32:25,440
see your lights in the sky where you see

3593
02:32:30,171 --> 02:32:27,750
photos that have more specific details

3594
02:32:32,270 --> 02:32:30,181
you're gonna say basically either that's

3595
02:32:35,301 --> 02:32:32,280
conventional aircraft or they're fakes

3596
02:32:37,190 --> 02:32:35,311
well we depend on wet the photos are

3597
02:32:40,070 --> 02:32:37,200
dependent when they were taken if they

3598
02:32:42,470 --> 02:32:40,080
were older or if there were recent new

3599
02:32:45,381 --> 02:32:42,480
proto's I would say it very likely

3600
02:32:48,950 --> 02:32:45,391
created some of them are created by apps

3601
02:32:50,990 --> 02:32:48,960
and by CGI and by various other things

3602
02:32:53,631 --> 02:32:51,000
that you know nowadays it's very easy

3603
02:32:55,640 --> 02:32:53,641
for experienced sophisticated people to

3604
02:32:58,310 --> 02:32:55,650
create a very impressive looking photos

3605
02:33:00,860 --> 02:32:58,320
and videos if we're talking about photos

3606
02:33:04,131 --> 02:33:00,870
from the 1950s and the 1960s

3607
02:33:06,530 --> 02:33:04,141
well it's it depends again on what it

3608
02:33:08,600 --> 02:33:06,540
shows there lot of now we talk about

3609
02:33:10,881 --> 02:33:08,610
blur flows some people who which is

3610
02:33:14,330 --> 02:33:10,891
which would also take in most of these

3611
02:33:16,400 --> 02:33:14,340
insect UFOs and also birds too I think

3612
02:33:18,980 --> 02:33:16,410
it photographed when their wings are

3613
02:33:20,720 --> 02:33:18,990
folded up exactly exactly and those are

3614
02:33:22,700 --> 02:33:20,730
blur foes and that could be almost

3615
02:33:24,530 --> 02:33:22,710
anything if it's a really clear

3616
02:33:28,490 --> 02:33:24,540
structured craft like McMinnville

3617
02:33:30,171 --> 02:33:28,500
appears to be Paul Tran 1950 okay then

3618
02:33:33,620 --> 02:33:30,181
this was not done with any sophisticated

3619
02:33:36,320 --> 02:33:33,630
computer enhancement because nobody had

3620
02:33:39,711 --> 02:33:36,330
computers back then so that rules that

3621
02:33:41,421 --> 02:33:39,721
out but was it a model that was strung

3622
02:33:44,001 --> 02:33:41,431
on a telephone wire something like a

3623
02:33:46,400 --> 02:33:44,011
truck mirror whatever or was it a real

3624
02:33:48,801 --> 02:33:46,410
UFO and people can disagree I think

3625
02:33:51,171 --> 02:33:48,811
there's a lot of reasons to think that

3626
02:33:54,080 --> 02:33:51,181
it was a small model of some kind in the

3627
02:33:55,910 --> 02:33:54,090
lake Joel carpenter had a very good you

3628
02:33:59,120 --> 02:33:55,920
know explanation of that on his website

3629
02:34:01,461 --> 02:33:59,130
and people have for some reason he took

3630
02:34:03,530 --> 02:34:01,471
it down not because I don't think

3631
02:34:06,350 --> 02:34:03,540
anything have you do the CIA or whatever

3632
02:34:07,640 --> 02:34:06,360
but apparently certain ufologists we're

3633
02:34:09,650 --> 02:34:07,650
friends that his said why don't you take

3634
02:34:11,450 --> 02:34:09,660
that down and he did at least that's

3635
02:34:13,131 --> 02:34:11,460
what I heard I can't say for sure it's

3636
02:34:15,830 --> 02:34:13,141
true although it's still out there on

3637
02:34:17,810 --> 02:34:15,840
that you use the Wayback Machine he

3638
02:34:20,540 --> 02:34:17,820
showed how you know farmer Trent could

3639
02:34:23,780 --> 02:34:20,550
have easily done this using an old truck

3640
02:34:25,370 --> 02:34:23,790
mirror like from a 1930s truck and just

3641
02:34:28,100 --> 02:34:25,380
drawing it on like a fishing line over

3642
02:34:29,870 --> 02:34:28,110
the wire and gotten a few pictures so

3643
02:34:30,680 --> 02:34:29,880
yeah it appears to be a structured craft

3644
02:34:32,361 --> 02:34:30,690
but

3645
02:34:36,231 --> 02:34:32,371
you know how big is it it's a you know

3646
02:34:37,601 --> 02:34:36,241
way out there and huge or is it nearby

3647
02:34:40,371 --> 02:34:37,611
and it's only about six inches across

3648
02:34:42,081 --> 02:34:40,381
yeah but wouldn't you be able to with

3649
02:34:44,211 --> 02:34:42,091
proper photo analysis tell the

3650
02:34:46,791 --> 02:34:44,221
difference between something that six

3651
02:34:49,671 --> 02:34:46,801
inches across and something that is

3652
02:34:52,491 --> 02:34:49,681
really huge and far away well not

3653
02:34:54,261 --> 02:34:52,501
necessarily that's what they tried to do

3654
02:34:56,930 --> 02:34:54,271
with the Condon report yeah Wayne Clay

3655
02:34:59,001 --> 02:34:56,940
Hartman it's yeah he said well it would

3656
02:35:01,001 --> 02:34:59,011
he didn't say it was this and he said it

3657
02:35:04,071 --> 02:35:01,011
was consistent with the idea of being

3658
02:35:06,201 --> 02:35:04,081
distant because of the reflectivity of

3659
02:35:08,901 --> 02:35:06,211
the the brightness of the underside

3660
02:35:12,561 --> 02:35:08,911
appeared to be brighter than the

3661
02:35:15,801 --> 02:35:12,571
underside of the nearby oil tank and so

3662
02:35:17,811 --> 02:35:15,811
therefore it would suggest that Masaryk

3663
02:35:19,911 --> 02:35:17,821
scattering which would suggest a distant

3664
02:35:21,801 --> 02:35:19,921
object however there are other factors

3665
02:35:24,621 --> 02:35:21,811
that were not taking into account I

3666
02:35:26,781 --> 02:35:24,631
suggest that that what they call veiling

3667
02:35:29,271 --> 02:35:26,791
glare in other words that two uh light

3668
02:35:31,671 --> 02:35:29,281
spills over from you have a dark object

3669
02:35:34,881 --> 02:35:31,681
against the bright background some of

3670
02:35:38,031 --> 02:35:34,891
the light from the bright background

3671
02:35:39,801 --> 02:35:38,041
spills over into the object at the dark

3672
02:35:41,811 --> 02:35:39,811
object and makes it look brighter than

3673
02:35:43,101 --> 02:35:41,821
it showed it whereas the oil tank down

3674
02:35:45,591 --> 02:35:43,111
at the bottom of the picture didn't have

3675
02:35:46,941 --> 02:35:45,601
that well that could be analyzes this he

3676
02:35:48,771 --> 02:35:46,951
says well there was veiling glare but it

3677
02:35:50,571 --> 02:35:48,781
wasn't enough to make this effect and

3678
02:35:53,421 --> 02:35:50,581
Joel Carpenter by suggesting a truck

3679
02:35:56,151 --> 02:35:53,431
mirror that invalidates one of the

3680
02:35:58,491 --> 02:35:56,161
assumptions underneath that the Condit

3681
02:36:00,441 --> 02:35:58,501
report made which was that it was a an

3682
02:36:02,631 --> 02:36:00,451
object it was a dark you-know-whats

3683
02:36:04,491 --> 02:36:02,641
object in the shade if it's a mirror

3684
02:36:06,801 --> 02:36:04,501
then it's a it's a object that's

3685
02:36:09,201 --> 02:36:06,811
reflecting the bright ground underneath

3686
02:36:11,180 --> 02:36:09,211
and so that makes it brighter than a

3687
02:36:13,341 --> 02:36:11,190
shaded object would be at the you know

3688
02:36:14,751 --> 02:36:13,351
object that was shaded from the sunlight

3689
02:36:17,631 --> 02:36:14,761
it's reflecting the sunlight on the

3690
02:36:19,851 --> 02:36:17,641
ground because it's a mirror all right

3691
02:36:22,041 --> 02:36:19,861
you basically think that dr. Maccabee

3692
02:36:24,261 --> 02:36:22,051
was wrong I didn't say he was wrong

3693
02:36:25,881 --> 02:36:24,271
about that particular aspect though he

3694
02:36:27,381 --> 02:36:25,891
thinks yeah it's a it's an unknown

3695
02:36:29,991 --> 02:36:27,391
object I think what he said about the

3696
02:36:32,901 --> 02:36:30,001
veiling glare was correct but it only

3697
02:36:35,481 --> 02:36:32,911
goes so far that this whole if you read

3698
02:36:38,961 --> 02:36:35,491
the Hartman analysis say he made certain

3699
02:36:40,701 --> 02:36:38,971
assumptions and and if his assumptions

3700
02:36:43,191 --> 02:36:40,711
are correct and if the veiling glare

3701
02:36:44,421 --> 02:36:43,201
isn't very much then that would tend to

3702
02:36:47,541 --> 02:36:44,431
suggest it's a large object

3703
02:36:48,980 --> 02:36:47,551
however joel carpenter showed that at

3704
02:36:51,890 --> 02:36:48,990
least one of those assumptions appears

3705
02:36:53,211 --> 02:36:51,900
to be not correct and then the the whole

3706
02:36:55,970 --> 02:36:53,221
analysis is up

3707
02:36:58,701 --> 02:36:55,980
is there validated well you know what we

3708
02:37:00,741 --> 02:36:58,711
can go on and on here and point the same

3709
02:37:04,821 --> 02:37:00,751
fun thanks for being on the show Robert

3710
02:37:05,991 --> 02:37:04,831
well I've enjoyed it so it's good it's

3711
02:37:08,331 --> 02:37:06,001
always good to hear these different

3712
02:37:10,071 --> 02:37:08,341
theories and talk about them we will

3713
02:37:11,810 --> 02:37:10,081
never agree unless the flying saucer

3714
02:37:14,871 --> 02:37:11,820
lands in your backyard in fact I'm

3715
02:37:18,651 --> 02:37:14,881
hoping the FE T is here that they land

3716
02:37:20,390 --> 02:37:18,661
in your backyard first I'm sure they'll

3717
02:37:21,951 --> 02:37:20,400
know where you live because sit CT

3718
02:37:24,470 --> 02:37:21,961
therefore they you know everything that

3719
02:37:25,881 --> 02:37:24,480
could read minds okay Robert Shaffer

3720
02:37:28,491 --> 02:37:25,891
please tell our listeners where they can

3721
02:37:32,810 --> 02:37:28,501
find more of your stuff well if you look

3722
02:37:35,261 --> 02:37:32,820
at my blog bad UFOs comm I try to keep

3723
02:37:38,751 --> 02:37:35,271
up to date on the latest and greatest

3724
02:37:40,611 --> 02:37:38,761
claims and such I also have the some of

3725
02:37:42,951 --> 02:37:40,621
the older material and debunker comm

3726
02:37:46,361 --> 02:37:42,961
which is not just UFOs but other

3727
02:37:49,220 --> 02:37:46,371
subjects as well and so between those

3728
02:37:52,131 --> 02:37:49,230
and then of course I have my latest book

3729
02:37:54,201 --> 02:37:52,141
is psychic vibrations which is from the

3730
02:37:56,930 --> 02:37:54,211
column that I write in skeptical

3731
02:37:58,911 --> 02:37:56,940
Inquirer each issue so that's where to

3732
02:38:00,861 --> 02:37:58,921
find it we'll be looking for you by the

3733
02:38:02,901 --> 02:38:00,871
way you can get a free copy of Chris

3734
02:38:05,600 --> 02:38:02,911
O'Brien's secrets of the mysterious

3735
02:38:08,541 --> 02:38:05,610
valley the eBook version go to the para

3736
02:38:10,881 --> 02:38:08,551
cast con that's the para cast com sign

3737
02:38:13,100 --> 02:38:10,891
up for our weekly newsletter and we'll

3738
02:38:16,640 --> 02:38:13,110
get your copy out to you Chris O'Brien

3739
02:38:18,680 --> 02:38:16,650
site is our strange planet dot-com if

3740
02:38:21,381 --> 02:38:18,690
you buy a copy of his book stalking the

3741
02:38:24,381 --> 02:38:21,391
herd the printed copy he'll sign and

3742
02:38:26,331 --> 02:38:24,391
number it if you order it from him on

3743
02:38:29,241 --> 02:38:26,341
Twitter were the power cast there's also

3744
02:38:30,890 --> 02:38:29,251
a para cast fan club on Facebook

3745
02:38:33,261 --> 02:38:30,900
Robert Schaeffer thanks for joining us

3746
02:38:35,991 --> 02:38:33,271
on the power cast Thank You Jean it's

3747
02:38:37,581 --> 02:38:36,001
been fun so listen very carefully ladies

3748
02:38:40,371 --> 02:38:37,591
and gentlemen because I think there was

3749
02:38:42,081 --> 02:38:40,381
a big contradiction in what Robert

3750
02:38:53,029 --> 02:38:42,091
Schaeffer said on this week's episode

3751
02:38:59,429 --> 02:38:56,519
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3752
02:39:02,420 --> 02:38:59,439
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

3753
02:39:06,149 --> 02:39:02,430
presentation of making the impossible